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Author Topic: Is it literal or symbolic?  (Read 1367 times)

newbie

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Is it literal or symbolic?
« on: September 10, 2018, 04:43:43 PM »
Seems that a lot of discussion debate center around whether things are literal or symbolic or maybe parallel?

Lion...  is this Jesus or Satan?  symbolic right
Leaven... is it good or bad?  literal and analogy symbol
time prophecies literal or symbolic?

do you see the problem?
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Raven

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2018, 04:46:44 PM »
There is no problem when context is taken into consideration.
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Wherefore, let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.  I Cor. 10:12

newbie

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2018, 06:00:11 PM »
Quote from: Raven on September 10, 2018, 04:46:44 PM
There is no problem when context is taken into consideration.
 
not always do we have context....  there is inconsistency in some situations ..
for example:  the numbers in revelation or the numbers in prophecy and our people argue and argue over them constantly
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Listen

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2018, 08:42:39 PM »
"for example:  the numbers in revelation or the numbers in prophecy and our people argue and argue over them constantly"

What numbers are you referencing?
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Nahum 1:7 The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.

Ed Sutton

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2018, 06:02:15 PM »
from Newbie
Quote
Seems that a lot of discussion debate center around whether things are literal or symbolic or maybe parallel?

Lion...  is this Jesus or Satan?  symbolic right
Leaven... is it good or bad?  literal and analogy symbol
time prophecies literal or symbolic?

do you see the problem?

Then Raven said
Quote
There is no problem when context is taken into consideration. 

Lion - Revelation 5:5  And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Psalms 22:13  They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
Proverbs 28:15  As a roaring lion, and a ranging bear; so is a wicked ruler over the poor people.
Ezekiel 22:25  There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
1 Peter 5:8  Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

The lions refer to specific individuals and the characteristics of Lion's is applied to them. Two kinds of Lions symbolized.

Leaven - something that literally permeates, ferments, causes changes, and gas build up, makes grape juice into alcohol containing wine, causes secondary intoxication through alcohol buildup, is symbolic of whatever permeates and spoils something, or  symbolic of the gospel permeating a newly converted person with the  person  denoted as a "new" wineskin verses an admixture with false doctrines and a carnal heart ( old wineskin).  Leaven of the pharisees = hypocrisy

Time - God's coded references to a time specific prophecy the wicked are not understanding, by the teachable can learn. Reference to a literal 360 day long Jewish sacred calender year.

Numbers - Numbers integers that refer to units of time that God has coded to show the teachable and leave the proud in doubt about, or literal integers denoting how many of something, or how long till when, of how long from when.
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Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 While it is true that God gives the message from Scripture and SOP. The taste I give to others about the message sells it or kills it, I learn to walk it well & cook it well & eat it myself, before I preach it.  Then the SDA message appeals by His righteousness.

newbie

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2018, 06:15:11 PM »
Quote from: Listen on September 11, 2018, 08:42:39 PM
"for example:  the numbers in revelation or the numbers in prophecy and our people argue and argue over them constantly"

What numbers are you referencing?
numbers in revelation
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Raven

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2018, 02:44:03 AM »
Quote from: newbie on September 12, 2018, 06:15:11 PM
Quote from: Listen on September 11, 2018, 08:42:39 PM


What numbers are you referencing?
numbers in revelation

I'm not following you.  The only numbers I know of that are debated among SDA's are the 144,000--literal or symbolic.  And we've been  warned not to argue about that.
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Wherefore, let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.  I Cor. 10:12

newbie

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2018, 07:00:28 PM »
you're kidding right? 
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Listen

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2018, 01:19:22 PM »
Quote
"for example:  the numbers in revelation or the numbers in prophecy and our people argue and argue over them constantly"

What numbers are you referencing?
numbers in revelation


Your answers are too vague to understand what you are asking/talking about. 
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Nahum 1:7 The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.

newbie

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2018, 04:26:18 PM »
some examples aside from 144K

literal or symbolic?

the plagues
the sign or seal between God and His people
God's law
the Mark of God
the Mark of the beast
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Listen

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2018, 07:23:07 PM »
Quote
literal or symbolic?

the plagues
the sign or seal between God and His people
God's law
the Mark of God
the Mark of the beast

Symbolic plagues.  Now that is an interesting concept.

To me the other items in the list are all character related.   Is ones character literal or symbolic or based on principle?  I haven't heard these types of arguments.  Know what you believe or study to know what you believe on any subject.  I doubt if arguing with anyone over issues changes their mind.  I haven't seen that it is anything but frustrating and gets nowhere.

What do you think?


« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 07:46:26 PM by Listen »
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Nahum 1:7 The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.

Raven

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2018, 02:25:33 AM »
Quote from: newbie on September 15, 2018, 04:26:18 PM
some examples aside from 144K

literal or symbolic?

the plagues
the sign or seal between God and His people
God's law
the Mark of God
the Mark of the beast

I have not heard arguments among SDA's about these items.  Everyone I've talked to understands the plagues to be literal (and Ellen White says as much), the seal to be symbolic, as well as the mark of the beast.  I've never heard anyone suggest that God's law was anything but literal.  We've been warned off the ground of making some of these things too important.  I think we have enough clarity in the Bible and the SOP to keep us from going down the wrong path.
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Wherefore, let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.  I Cor. 10:12

Ed Sutton

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2018, 05:08:04 PM »
my 2 cents:

the plagues-literal

the sign or seal between God and His people / the Mark of God - literal (third angel has writers inkhorn applies it or passes by ) (destroying angel can read it ) ( I found 5 published, 2 not published hits - seal destroying angel* read* )

Quote
What is the seal of the living God, which is placed in the foreheads of His people? It is a mark which angels, but not human eyes, can read; for the destroying angel must see this mark of redemption. The intelligent mind has seen the sign of the cross of Calvary in the Lord's adopted sons and daughters. The sin of the transgression of the law of God is taken away. They have on the wedding garment, and are obedient and faithful to all God's commands.  {Mar 243.6} 
     The Lord will not excuse those who know the truth if they do not in word and deed obey His commands.  {Mar 243.7} 

Quote
What is the seal of the living God, which is placed in the foreheads of His people? It is a mark which angels, but not human eyes, can read; for the destroying angel must see this mark of redemption (Letter 126, 1898).  {4BC 1161.4}
     The angel with the writer's ink horn is to place a mark upon the foreheads of all who are separated from sin and sinners, and the destroying angel follows this angel (Letter 12, 1886).  {4BC 1161.5} 
     (Revelation 7:2.) Seal Is a Settling Into Truth.--Just as soon as the people of God are sealed in their foreheads--it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth, both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved--just as soon as God's people are sealed and prepared for the shaking, it will come. Indeed, it has begun already; the judgments of God are now upon the land, to give us warning, that we may know what is coming (MS 173, 1902).  {4BC 1161.6}   


God's law - literal -

    

 
sorry jpgs are not the clearest but these are the tablets Moses broke, were found during first gulf war, RCC put a worldwide squelch on but Taiwan sent a reporter anyway.  I talked to high ranking RCC Offical not long after and he corroborated their validity, wanted to know how I found out. 

the Mark of the beast - literal Civil/religious Government can identify and persecute - so they know who complies or not, The Investigative judgment tags it too  ( so destroying angel can read that too )

I can't see gravity or radio waves but they are literal.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 09:02:57 PM by Ed Sutton »
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Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 While it is true that God gives the message from Scripture and SOP. The taste I give to others about the message sells it or kills it, I learn to walk it well & cook it well & eat it myself, before I preach it.  Then the SDA message appeals by His righteousness.

newbie

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2018, 08:15:38 PM »
some of these have both a literal meaning and a symbolic meaning... do you see that?
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Raven

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Re: Is it literal or symbolic?
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2018, 02:07:07 AM »
Quote from: newbie on September 18, 2018, 08:15:38 PM
some of these have both a literal meaning and a symbolic meaning... do you see that?

Of course; so what's the problem?
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Wherefore, let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.  I Cor. 10:12

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