Just looking for discussion

[Larry Lyons]

Tammy I agree that it makes no sense. Jesus did not die so that we could violate the ten commandments.

And speaking as a "rare old bird"  that just flew in, I do not recall that there were ever any test questions to be answered before being allowed to post on this forum.
Larry

[Raven]

Good to hear from you, Larry.  Don't make yourself so scarce.  It's been pretty quiet around here lately.

[V. Hahn]

Amen!  We missed you, Larry!

[newbie]

Amen!  We missed you, Larry!

 

[Tasa]

Ok.
We're all glad to see Larry back.

[Tammy]

So Tasa, you haven't responded to several of our comments.  Were you through discussing Matthew 5:17?  Was there anything specific that you would like to discuss?

[Tasa]

Well, Tammy, I think I'll just move along.  I find the format of this forum to be awkward to navigate, and it's awkward to constantly be answering the "verification" questions every time I want to post.

Also, I've been reading on many of the threads and I don't see a lot of variation in thought and opinion. Someone says something and everyone agrees.

Besides, one cannot really say anybody "responded" to my view of Matt. 5:17.  Ed Sutton tried to wax pontifical for a bit, but he made no effort to understand my position before eloquating, and then the "Welcome Back Larry" crowd all agreed with him.  That was the extent of the "discussion."

So, before I invest a lot of time and emotional energy in a "Yes-man" forum, I'll just quietly fade into the background, lurking around the edges of the all-too-familiar chatter, and hoping to someday find a forum with "thinkers, and not mere reflectors of other men's thoughts."

[Tammy]

Tasa, here is a forum you may enjoy:  Adventistan.com

There are 3 or 4 people on there who go back and forth on doctrinal beliefs that they don't agree on.  They present their cases in an intelligent and sane way.  They don't get all crazy angry like on some other forums I've seen.

[Ed Sutton]

Tasa what is your position ?  How do you see it ?

You asked a question & I responded.

you did not say "wait till I elaborate" so I responded.  It's your turn to respond.

Matt 5:17 speaks of fulfilling the law of God, and God's commands qualify with also being His law.  This is not directed at you but how would you answer this question ?   

Why do the rank and file of SDA's view themselves as law keepers if they do not "fulfill" the twice repeated command of Jesus found in John 13:34; John 15:12; because He stated this is one of the twin foundations of the whole law & the prophets - Matthew 22:26-40. 

The same question is posed here by one of the founders of the Denomination.

"     When we reflect Christ's image, we shall love one another as He has loved us. We shall not love as we love our neighbor, but as Christ loved us. It is an advance to love as Christ loved. This is the perfection of Christian character. When we can say, My will is wholly submerged in God's will, then peace and rest come in.  {7MR 389.1} 

     We must have that love, else we cannot be perfect before God. We may be active, we may do much work, but unless we love as Christ loved, our candlestick will be removed out of its place. . . .  {7MR 389.2} 

     We have little enough of Christ's character. We need it all through our ranks, We must reveal that love which dwelt in Jesus. Then we shall keep the commandment [that we love one another], which not one in a hundred of those who claim to believe the truth for this time are keeping. . . .  {7MR 389.3} 

     Perfect unity must exist in a diversity of gifts. A union of all the gifts is essential. The one great commandment Christ has given is a new commandment. It reaches beyond loving our neighbor as we love ourselves. We are to love one another, "as I," said Christ, "have loved you." This experience must be obtained by every child of God. All must blend together in the work, thus making the work not onesided, but a complete whole.--Letter 121, 1898, pp. 6-8. (To S. N. Haskell and wife, December 12, 1898.)  {7MR 389.4}     "

[restoretruth]

....
Regarding Jesus fulfilling the law, as you pointed out one of the understandings of fulfil is to bring to an end, or complete, by accomplishing (fulfilling) the requirements of. Since the law required death, and Paul is very clear in Gal. and Eph. that Jesus brought an end to the law by his death on the cross, here is my (current) view:

The cross was more than mere salvation and atonement for sin.

EVERYTHING CHANGED.

The cross brought an end to the Old Covenant of rules, regulations, ceremonies and ordinances. (Loose paraphrase of Paul in Gal/Eph)
It brought in the New Covenant in Christ's blood. (Luke 22:20)
With the New Covenant came a new commandment. (John 13:34)
End of Commandments.

BEFORE THE CROSS, when the Rich Young Ruler asked Jesus "What must I do to be saved?" Jesus answered in terms of the Law and commandment keeping. "You know the commandments: ‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not defraud, and honor your father and mother.’" (Mark 10:17-21, also in Matthew 19:16-30; Luke 18:18-30) He did NOT say believe in God, or Me, or Abraham, or indeed ANYTHING about belief.

AFTER THE CROSS, when the jailer asked Paul and Silas the exact same question, "They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household." (Acts 16:25-34) They did not answer in terms of keeping the Law, but in terms of belief in Christ.

Along with the new covenant came a new command - "Love one another." Love is the fulfilment of the law as per Romans 13:8-10. This is the command we are to keep.

So in my view, when Rev. 14:12 says "Here are they that keep the commandments of God [ie: love one another] and the faith of [ie: stay faithful to, or trust in] Jesus, THIS is the "command" it is referring to.

Welcome to the forum TASA! Hope you are still here!

It is the breaking of God's law that causes death! That is why Paul speaks of "escape from the law of sin and death" in Rom. 8:2. How do we escape?

We escape by Faith in Christ; that He took our guilt upon Himself & died in our place -- taking the penalty for our breaking of God's law.  Christ not only forgives our sins but He cleanses us from sin & restores us to His image! The Holy Spirit dwelling in us makes it possible to fulfill the principles of God's law in our hearts (minds). Loving God with all our heart, soul, mind and might & loving others as Christ loves us are the underlying principles of God's law. If God could just forgive the breaking of His principles of love that govern His universe without the penalty of death, there would be no more law. Everyone would be a law unto themselves! It would be like our present world! God's solution to the sin problem was to take the penalty for sin upon Himself! This gives Him the right to forgive without doing away with His law! It also gives God the right to give men & women Divine power to cleanse their life from sin!

(There is much more that needs to be said on this subject!)