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Author Topic: Does it make a difference?  (Read 5334 times)

Larry Lyons

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2014, 04:36:23 PM »
Quote from: sdazeal on June 07, 2014, 03:30:40 PM
>>>>>Zeal, would you consider sending your daughter to Weimar or Wildwood to learn cooking to reverse type 2 diabetes, and put her in a owner-op catering truck / Medical Missionary / Bible Worker self employed - type situation?<<<<<

Well, neither Weimar nor Wildwood were "equipped to deal an autistic person" just like everyone else. But anything else she would need me or someone else to help her. She could work on a catering truck but could never drive one or operate a business on her own. Truthfully, and sadly, there has never been a single SDA organization that has ever stepped up to the plate where she is concerned. In fact, outside of a place to worship and serve, the Adventist Church has done exactly zero for me as a person or for my family in any way. I guess that is how God wants it or He would put it in their hearts.
Zeal, your statements cause me a lot of concern about your relationship with the church as you see it. You convey an attitude of strong resentment. Did you have the expectation that the church would have special programs for people with autism or other such conditions? I have a grandson who is developmentally delayed who has been involved in various public programs for DD people at least since high school. He lives with his mother who is not a Christian, but it would never have occurred to me to think that there would be Adventist operated training programs for him. The only time I ever became aware of a unfilled need was at camp meeting. They have no programs for handicapped people like my grandson. There is probably no way of finding out, but there must be a fair number of families in the conference who have people with similar disabilities. I think it is a potential ministry waiting to happen.
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ColporteurK

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2014, 05:17:03 PM »

 Were you not blessed in the Oklahoma Academy ? 

 I think where we are most blessed is when we take the little offered us in the church and make much of it. For instance, I was handed a set of studies by a pastor (who is now a Sunday keeper) and I studied through the whole set alone, chain smoked them so to speak, and asked to be baptized. I was given little help, but a little, in the canvassing work and God gave me success from the first day. Perhaps God is trying to teach us like Joseph to gather strength in hardship. If we could count on the church we would  have less need of God.
The Lord is preparing us to stand alone in terms of human support. America is a land of coddling and ease compared to much of the world. God is giving us sanctified grit and calluses so we can survive the coming crisis.  :-)
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sdazeal

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2014, 07:18:22 PM »
First Larry- >>>>>Zeal, your statements cause me a lot of concern about your relationship with the church as you see it. You convey an attitude of strong resentment. Did you have the expectation that the church would have special programs for people with autism or other such conditions?<<<<<

I do not have any resentment toward the church in general because it is not the church's obligation to provide "programs" for things, IMO. When I have approached anyone to find it in their heart a way to allow my daughter to take part in their ministry in any way, they have declined, I assume believing that someone else will say yes. I am, however, disappointed by the decisions of individuals and committees who had the chance to make a difference and decided it is too much work, or that she does not fit the mold of their "program". Being "program-centric" is ruining the church because unless someone fits into the program's criteria they are ignored and on their own. However, if they thought having her in their ministry would put butts in the pews,  er, I mean fulfill the Great Commission, they might have a different attitude, right?
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sdazeal

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2014, 07:30:06 PM »
Now Colp- <<<<< Were you not blessed in the Oklahoma Academy ?<<<<

Yes, but because of our giving, not because of anything the school did for us on the organizational level. We were called upon day and night to serve. Where other families were given exceptions on things, we were given no slack. We donated tens of thousands of dollars to the school without so much as "thank you". I suppose that was reserved for those who donated hundreds of thousands. ;) My daughter applied there last year to work as "junior staff" ( which is common for OA for graduated students to stay and work for free room and board) in the cafeteria and was turned down because they thought she would require too much attention. This was after her previous cafeteria supervisor described her as "a worker and half" because of her strong work ethic and focus.
As I said, I attend church to worship and serve, not because I expect anything from the church. Disappointment only comes from unmet expectations. I have learned to expect nothing, which is why I still attend.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 07:42:50 PM by sdazeal »
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Ed Sutton

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2014, 02:13:03 AM »
Whenever traveling among Churches across the country - show up with needs -  spiritual illegitimacy among us as a developed nations group of God's professed children is rife.       Not 1 in 20 in EGW's day...........   
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My convictions of duty on this point have been greatly strengthened by the following dream:  {1T 631.3} 

A grove of evergreens was presented before me. Several, including myself, were laboring among them. I was bidden to closely inspect the trees and see if they were in a flourishing condition. I observed that some were being bent and deformed by the wind, and needed to be supported by stakes. I was carefully removing the dirt from the feeble and dying trees to ascertain the cause of their condition. I discovered worms at the roots of some. Others had not been watered properly and were dying from drought. The roots of others had been crowded together to their injury. My work was to explain to the workmen the different reasons why these trees did not prosper. This was necessary from the fact that trees in other grounds were liable to be affected as these had been, and the cause of their not flourishing and how they should be cultivated and treated must be made known.  {1T 632.1} 

     In this testimony I speak freely of the case of Sister Hannah More, not from a willingness to grieve the Battle Creek church, but from a sense of duty. I love that church notwithstanding their faults. I know of no church that in acts of benevolence and general duty do so well. I present the frightful facts in this case to arouse our people everywhere to a sense of their duty. Not one in twenty of those who have a good standing with Seventh-day Adventists is living out the self-sacrificing principles of the word of God. But let not their enemies, who are destitute of the first principles of the doctrine of Christ, take advantage of the fact that they are reproved. This is evidence that they are the children of the Lord. Those who are without chastisement, says the apostle, are bastards and not sons. Then let not these illegitimate children boast over the lawful sons and daughters of the Almighty.  {1T 632.2} 

(  " Hannah More " ) = 14 hits

Chap. 114 - The Case of Hannah More -  {1T 666.3 - 680.1}

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Satan attacks us upon our practical applications of loving others as Jesus loves us, far too often Satan wins because we don't give Christ the opportunity to start, compete, complete what He started.

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If someone had made a difference for Hannah More she would have lived, while only God knows what could have been, we with limited sight can see what should have been.

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zeal what would make the needed difference for your daughter so she could work, obeying God in her chosen profession, without violating Scripture / conscience ?   

What are her challenges ?   

What is needed ?

I do not know that I even have "two loaves and fish" but I do have prayer, and my last several employments are the direct answers to prayer, did all the brand creating jumping through hoops = zero returns and much wasted time and expenses.   But organized Church prayer - MADE THE DIFFERENCE COMPLETELY - nontraditional doors opened for jobs moving lodging etc.   Things are at minimum again now, but it is God who weighs needs opportunities resources interventions in His hands and does in practical fact answer > what is needed when the time comes.

I have little > but I am willing to listen > willing to intercede > with Him who has much.  It's midnight, do you need whole wheat, oatmeal, or nine grain ?

« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 02:52:29 AM by Ed Sutton »
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Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 While it is true that God gives the message from Scripture and SOP. The taste I give to others about the message sells it or kills it, I learn to walk it well & cook it well & eat it myself, before I preach it.  Then the SDA message appeals by His righteousness.

ColporteurK

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2014, 07:36:21 AM »

  Zeal;

  Yes, the arm of flesh will fail us, in this day and age , almost every time. However, our most important needs are met. I have given $30,000 to the canvassing work in the sense that this is about what I have lost by customers that did not pay for their books. Most of my income even as a very successful LE is eaten up in expenses. I receive essentially no benefits from the church even from conferences like the Dakota Conference which is wealthy right now. (oil / farming/ gasohol/ confinement livestock/ increased population resulting in alot of tithe) I have had a few local churches pay for a fair booth here and there. While that is appreciated it is really very little considering the expenses. The church is even afraid to consider us church workers for fear  of liability so we are legally independent distributors and in all but one area of the country we are entirely on our own. Now it is getting harder to even buy our books as the presses are in trouble.  This is why LEs are about as scarce as hen's teeth and most conferences have none at all while the church is making multimillion dollar movies. Even so, the Lord has met our needs and we have never done without. My wife works outside the home and we juggle the children here at home. They have never seen a baby sitter or day care. We do not do this work for the church institution but for the people out in the field and for the Lord. While this does not tend to leave such a good taste in one's mouth how do we expect a Laodicean people in a church that appears to fall to act ? They killed Jesus !  Only a remnant within the remnant will be saved and most  in leadership will not do the humbler service. The church is no different than it has ever been since the time the 12 argued who was the greatest. Even before that there was the mixed multitude. WE must not let Satan use his clever of people in the church to cut us away from God. Service is where it is at. Without that we have no chance. I came into this church not because of the faithfulness of the people but because of the faithfulness of God and His message. The church has been a major disappointment in many ways and yet there are Elijah's and John the Baptists IN the church. We are called to be one of THEM ! The church is little different today than it has been most of the past several thousand years.

   I know when I came into the church I expected to see a people that equated with the message. Wrong focus, and many have been shaken out because of that focus. Service in the church tends to help us to refocus on that which is edifying and uplifting even when that service too can be difficult.

I have people telling me our books are too high priced and every other reason why we ought to go work at Walmart instead. Most think the LE is a traveling ABC where there is little ministry just the selling of "high priced books."     Praise the Lord for his word and the pointed messages in the Spirit of Prophecy !
We  have every reason to be upbeat. If this world was so great and if the church was so helpful we would not long for the second coming of Christ.  :-D
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V. Hahn

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2014, 05:58:23 PM »
"If this world was so great and if the church was so helpful we would not long for the second coming of Christ."

Amen!

I have to constantly remember not to look to people, but to Jesus.  People will let you down much of the time.  When I think how many times I have let people down--and am presently letting people down--I am humbled to the dust.
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sdazeal

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2014, 06:49:37 AM »
Quote from: V. Hahn on June 09, 2014, 05:58:23 PM
"If this world was so great and if the church was so helpful we would not long for the second coming of Christ."

Amen!

I have to constantly remember not to look to people, but to Jesus.  People will let you down much of the time.  When I think how many times I have let people down--and am presently letting people down--I am humbled to the dust.

Okay, now tie this into the original premise of the thread.
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Ed Sutton

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2014, 08:42:41 AM »
Does it make a difference - if I stand for the right in all things not swerving to the right or the left, even if mistaken but true in my conscience the best I can know at the time ?

Let me ask this ?

If He returns one day sooner is it better or worse ?

http://youtu.be/YmU2RpRB8J0



Quote
  God's original purpose in the creation of the earth is fulfilled as it is made the eternal abode of the redeemed. "The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever." The time has come to which holy men have looked with longing since the flaming sword barred the first pair from Eden--the time for "the redemption of the purchased possession." The earth originally given to man as his kingdom, betrayed by him into the hands of Satan, and so long held by the mighty foe, has been brought back by the great plan of redemption.  {AH 540.1} 

     All that was lost by the first Adam will be restored by the second. The prophet says, "O Tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto Thee shall it come, even the first dominion." And Paul points forward to the "redemption of the purchased possession."  {AH 540.2} 

     God created the earth to be the abode of holy, happy beings. That purpose will be fulfilled when, renewed by the power of God and freed from sin and sorrow, it shall become the eternal home of the redeemed.  {AH 540.3} 

 "When the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come."Mark 4:29  Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.  {COL 69.1} 

     It is the privilege of every Christian not only to look for but to hasten the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, (2 Peter 3:12, margin). Were all who profess His name bearing fruit to His glory, how quickly the whole world would be sown with the seed of the gospel. Quickly the last great harvest would be ripened, and Christ would come to gather the precious grain.  {COL 69.2}   


« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 08:54:30 AM by Ed Sutton »
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Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 While it is true that God gives the message from Scripture and SOP. The taste I give to others about the message sells it or kills it, I learn to walk it well & cook it well & eat it myself, before I preach it.  Then the SDA message appeals by His righteousness.

sdazeal

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2014, 10:24:34 PM »
>>>>> "When the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come."Mark 4:29  Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.  {COL 69.1}  <<<<<

Wow! When is the last time you heard that one quoted from the pulpit? The Bible says that Jesus comes when the great Commission is fulfilled. Is this a "Bible vs Ellen White"?
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Ed Sutton

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2014, 12:18:26 AM »
It's not EGW vs KJV , it's EGW unpacking Ezra style explaining KJV.   

Nehemiah 8:
2  And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.
3  And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law.
4  And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.
5  And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people;) and when he opened it, all the people stood up:
6  And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground.
7  Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place.
8  So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

To make disciples and observe all things - I have to first BE a disciple and MYSELF observe all things - from the position of Biblically fearing God while abiding in Jesus the Vine.   Until then I can not bare fruit. Fruit bearing = sap from the root flowing it's life outward to pruned cultivated branches & Father God is the husbandman who prunes . Until then (John 17:26 + {DA 641.3} + Eph ch 3 + 2nd Peter 1-12 + Jn 17:3 ) - is not fulfilled and Jesus does not minister entrance into the kingdom of Heaven ( cross reference with   John 3:3,14,15 )  When I open myself to unconditionally let Jesus enter and reign He performs all the above quickly on His time schedule.


http://salvationathreesidedcoin.blogspot.com/

http://bibleobtainingsteps.blogspot.com/

http://bibleobtainingsteps.blogspot.com/2011/05/to-all-who-do-this-nature-of-obtaining.html

 3 part series
 part 1
http://biblicallyperfectornot.blogspot.com/2013/12/q.html

part 2

http://biblicallyperfectornot.blogspot.com/2013/12/part-2-since-loving-others-as-christ.html

part 3

http://biblicallyperfectornot.blogspot.com/2013/12/part-3-how-to-obtain-from-christ-love.html

under my profile on blogger look up Biblically fearing God - start with KJV 466 Texts

Many have worked to unpack "observe all things"........      where are those to unpack from KJV + SOP > what God says what the fruit - Mark 4:29 is talking about, and what is the putting in of the sickle.  Is this sickle the sealing or the Second Coming or a process involving both ?     {COL 69.1}  {LDE 39.1-5}  what fruit - fruit of the Spirit or fruit of mere preaching or a mixture ?

When Jesus said Matthew 24:14
Quote
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
- could this witness also involve
Quote
The world needs today what it needed nineteen hundred years ago--a revelation of Christ. A great work of reform is demanded, and it is only through the grace of Christ that the work of restoration, physical, mental, and spiritual, can be accomplished.
  {MH 143.2}  read MH 143 par's 1-4.

What do you see there RE breadth of witness?  Is the witness that reveals Christ in those endtime someones, only mental, could it include physical, and also spiritual ?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 01:08:36 AM by Ed Sutton »
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Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 While it is true that God gives the message from Scripture and SOP. The taste I give to others about the message sells it or kills it, I learn to walk it well & cook it well & eat it myself, before I preach it.  Then the SDA message appeals by His righteousness.

sdazeal

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2014, 09:14:26 AM »
I was  kind  of "devil's advocating". The Great Commission includes "Teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you". IN this day of "soul winning" for the purpose of church growth, the full gospel has been edited down to "Make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." Just as that "other" text has been edited to read "Seek first the Kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you."
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ColporteurK

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2014, 01:04:08 PM »

 Is Christ waiting for us or are we waiting for Him ?   Both, depending on what perspective we take. Christ has a perfect providence in order. He is waiting for a people and bringing that people forward. If we are not being worked, used and shaped by Him and working in step with His commission we will  cease to be His people and the gospel message will run over us and leave us lying on the ground like someone run over by a jeep.
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Ed Sutton

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Re: Does it make a difference?
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2014, 02:07:49 PM »
Quote
It is a universal principle that whenever one refuses to use his God-given powers, these powers decay and perish. Truth that is not lived, that is not imparted, loses its life-giving power, its healing virtue.--The Acts of the Apostles, p. 206.  {ChS 97.4}

     Nothing will give bone and sinew to your piety like working to advance the cause you profess to love, instead of binding it.--Testimonies, vol. 4, p. 236.  {ChS 98.1}

     Those who endeavor to maintain Christian life by passively accepting the blessings that come through the means of grace, and doing nothing for Christ, are simply trying to live by eating without working. And in the spiritual as in the natural world, this always results in degeneration and decay.--Steps to Christ, pp. 80, 81.  {ChS 98.2} 

Mark 4:
24  And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
25  For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

Matthew 25:
24  Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25  And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26  His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27  Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28  Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29  For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30  And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
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Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 While it is true that God gives the message from Scripture and SOP. The taste I give to others about the message sells it or kills it, I learn to walk it well & cook it well & eat it myself, before I preach it.  Then the SDA message appeals by His righteousness.

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