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  • NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
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Author Topic: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote  (Read 17806 times)

sdazeal

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2014, 04:00:25 PM »
What I meant was that there is nothing new about "helpful editing" ( to use the EGW Estate's words) to Ellen White's writings to make them appear to support currently held views. Of course, people like us talking about it is seen as worse than actually doing it. The "helpful editing" of Ellen White's writings is something we are supposed to keep secret, lest people lose confidence in those writings. That is why I said, "nothing to see here, move along"....

As was shown, the "helpful editing" of Sr White's quote had the direct effect of changing the meaning of the comment, which of course Angel Rodriguez took advantage of.

Got honesty, anyone?
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Larry Lyons

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2014, 09:33:09 PM »
Sunday May 18 I was a delegate from my local church to the Northern California Conference constituency meeting
Most of the morning was taken up by formally voting in the candidates for each office of the conference administration. As is the usual practice, the candidates had been earlier selected by a nominating committee. Every candidate was currently holding the office, and was re-elected by very large margins.

The next item on the agenda was a proposal from the administration to change the frequency of constituency meetings from every two years as is now the practice, to every 5 years starting in 2014. The second person in the debate to speak was Doug Batchelor who was an ex-oficio delegate from the Granite Harbor Church. (His new pastorate) He warned the group that in 2015 there would be a very important General Conference Session and there would very likely be significant issues for the conference to deal with by the constituency. If this proposal is voted in, there would not be another constituency meeting until 2019. A conference official stated that they would have frequent Town Hall meetings all around the conference instead. (Of course, town meetings have no authority at all!!) In order for this to pass, it required a two thirds majority. It failed. The results were close to even for and against.

Incidentally, voting was done by a credit card size electronic device, supplied to each delegate, which required merely pushing a button to register a yes or no vote. 20 seconds were allowed for the vote. The result was shown by a graph and numbers on the large screen above the platform. That part was great.

There were 3 proposals that had been placed on the agenda for discussion by a group of local churches: women's ordination, homosexuality, and evolution. Before any discussion started, a motion was made to refer these items to the executive committee rather than discuss them in the current meeting. There was very pointed statements made by some during the debate. It was pointed out by one delegate that this was an attempt to subvert the legal process that had been done  bring these issues before the constituents. It was finally brought to a vote, which only required a 2/3 majority to pass and it barely passed.

It was time for lunch and there had been 2 hours allocated for open discussion. The chair was asked if discussion of the 3 agenda items would be allowed. The chair (Elder Pederson, conference president) after consultation with the official parliamentarian answered that they could be discussed in the open discussion that would take place after lunch. Someone immediately mace a motion that the meeting be adjourned. Elder Pederson said that motions to adjourn take precedence over every thing else and a vote to adjourn would end the constituency meeting and everyone could go home. This was voted down.

During the discussion after lunch the proposals were read and some very direct comments were made by speakers. It was made clear that the proposed resolutions state that the conference must be in compliance
with the policies of the general conference. It was stated that because of the fact that they have been ordaining women pastors since 2012, the conference is not only in violation of the general conference policy, but their own official policy as well. Needless to say, there were no happy faces on the platform.

The proposal on evolution was read and a very eloquent and emphatic statement was made concerning the teaching of evolution in Adventist schools. The speaker did not mince words when pointing out the danger and the damage this can do to students. Elder Pederson called the education secretary to the podium to speak to that. He apparently took the previous statement very personally and displayed a bit of anger in his response. He basically defended what is being taught in the schools on the basis that students need to know these things because they will need to know what it is about etc. etc. etc.

I'm glad I got to witness this. Was anyone form this forum there? I only saw one person I knew from another forum.

Each delegate received a little gift when we turned in our voting devices. The gift? A little book  titled "Is Jesus Enough?" by NAD president Dan Jackson, NAD president.  How symbolic of the meeting. Was this deliberate, or are they clueless?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 09:52:07 PM by Larry Lyons »
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Ed Sutton

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2014, 06:13:56 AM »
Once they all vote and carry out their votes ( probably post 2015) that some time after God will vote.  He does not depend on Roberts Rules etal

ask anyone from Mayflower or Vilonia Arkansas .
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Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 While it is true that God gives the message from Scripture and SOP. The taste I give to others about the message sells it or kills it, I learn to walk it well & cook it well & eat it myself, before I preach it.  Then the SDA message appeals by His righteousness.

newbie

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2014, 09:21:42 AM »
Quote from: Larry Lyons on May 19, 2014, 09:33:09 PM
Sunday May 18 I was a delegate from my local church to the Northern California Conference constituency meeting
Most of the morning was taken up by formally voting in the candidates for each office of the conference administration. As is the usual practice, the candidates had been earlier selected by a nominating committee. Every candidate was currently holding the office, and was re-elected by very large margins.

The next item on the agenda was a proposal from the administration to change the frequency of constituency meetings from every two years as is now the practice, to every 5 years starting in 2014. The second person in the debate to speak was Doug Batchelor who was an ex-oficio delegate from the Granite Harbor Church. (His new pastorate) He warned the group that in 2015 there would be a very important General Conference Session and there would very likely be significant issues for the conference to deal with by the constituency. If this proposal is voted in, there would not be another constituency meeting until 2019. A conference official stated that they would have frequent Town Hall meetings all around the conference instead. (Of course, town meetings have no authority at all!!) In order for this to pass, it required a two thirds majority. It failed. The results were close to even for and against.

Incidentally, voting was done by a credit card size electronic device, supplied to each delegate, which required merely pushing a button to register a yes or no vote. 20 seconds were allowed for the vote. The result was shown by a graph and numbers on the large screen above the platform. That part was great.

There were 3 proposals that had been placed on the agenda for discussion by a group of local churches: women's ordination, homosexuality, and evolution. Before any discussion started, a motion was made to refer these items to the executive committee rather than discuss them in the current meeting. There was very pointed statements made by some during the debate. It was pointed out by one delegate that this was an attempt to subvert the legal process that had been done  bring these issues before the constituents. It was finally brought to a vote, which only required a 2/3 majority to pass and it barely passed.

It was time for lunch and there had been 2 hours allocated for open discussion. The chair was asked if discussion of the 3 agenda items would be allowed. The chair (Elder Pederson, conference president) after consultation with the official parliamentarian answered that they could be discussed in the open discussion that would take place after lunch. Someone immediately mace a motion that the meeting be adjourned. Elder Pederson said that motions to adjourn take precedence over every thing else and a vote to adjourn would end the constituency meeting and everyone could go home. This was voted down.

During the discussion after lunch the proposals were read and some very direct comments were made by speakers. It was made clear that the proposed resolutions state that the conference must be in compliance
with the policies of the general conference. It was stated that because of the fact that they have been ordaining women pastors since 2012, the conference is not only in violation of the general conference policy, but their own official policy as well. Needless to say, there were no happy faces on the platform.

The proposal on evolution was read and a very eloquent and emphatic statement was made concerning the teaching of evolution in Adventist schools. The speaker did not mince words when pointing out the danger and the damage this can do to students. Elder Pederson called the education secretary to the podium to speak to that. He apparently took the previous statement very personally and displayed a bit of anger in his response. He basically defended what is being taught in the schools on the basis that students need to know these things because they will need to know what it is about etc. etc. etc.

I'm glad I got to witness this. Was anyone form this forum there? I only saw one person I knew from another forum.

Each delegate received a little gift when we turned in our voting devices. The gift? A little book  titled "Is Jesus Enough?" by NAD president Dan Jackson, NAD president.  How symbolic of the meeting. Was this deliberate, or are they clueless?
thanks Larry... our meeting is coming up very soon
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Larry Lyons

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2014, 10:21:42 AM »
If passed, the move to extend the length of time in office for conference leadership from 2 years to 5 years without the necessity of being re-elected would guarantee their job security and the continuing of their un-biblical agenda to place as many women as possible as pastors and other positions of headship in the church. Keep in mind that the Northern California Conference along with the Pacific Union Conference is in insubordination if not open rebellion to the world church. The NAD leadership is in full sympathy with this and even made a proposal to officially change the accepted method of Bible interpretation to facilitate their effort to establish women's ordination to pastoral headship for which there is no biblical support. 

#2 there was an attempt to prevent the discussion of women's ordination, homosexuality and the teaching of evolution which had been legally and properly placed on the agenda by "several" local churches. These are concerns of many local churches which are having to deal with these issues. The motion to refer to the executive committee was made immediately form the floor before any discussion could take place. Then when it was established that these agenda items could be discussed during a two hour open discussion time the motion to adjourn was made which would have stopped the meeting right then and there would have been no further discussion of anything.

We need to urge every member of our churches to educate themselves on these issues as well as the emergent church, The One Project, as an example of emergent church, spiritual formation and the biblical method of interpreting scripture as used by the Reformers and by the SDA pioneers. The church is under attack and I'm afraid that a majority of the members are woefully unprepared to deal with these things.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 10:30:48 AM by Larry Lyons »
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ColporteurK

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2014, 07:02:48 PM »

   5. Create and distribute videos of member's responses to female pastoral leadership.



    Does that mean that they will create and distribute videos of member's responses who oppose WO ?
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Larry Lyons

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2014, 08:08:50 PM »
I wasn't aware that anything was being filmed or recorded. Those meetings should be televised so church members could actually see their leaders in action.

Incidentally, when the South Eastern California conference was planning to elect a woman as conference president, Ted Wilson urged them not to do this and warned that she would not be recognized, would have no vote as a conference president. Of course they elected her anyway. Not long ago it it was apparently noticed that in the Seventh-day Adventist year book the South Eastern California conference is listed as having no president. A week or two ago I read that Ricardo Graham hand delivered a message to Elder Wilson asking him to tell the Archives department who prepared the year book to make a correction showing that they do have a president. Such aggressive arrogance!

I keep hearing that there will be a fierce attempt to unseat Ted Wilson at the General Conference session in 2015. We need to pray that it does not happen. I believe that would be a disaster.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 08:34:22 PM by Larry Lyons »
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ColporteurK

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2014, 04:46:22 PM »

 I didn't take point #5 to mean that this had anything to do with the meetings but rather productions in general of laity showing support of WO.
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Larry Lyons

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2014, 09:17:54 PM »
Quote from: ColporteurK on May 20, 2014, 07:02:48 PM

   5. Create and distribute videos of member's responses to female pastoral leadership.



    Does that mean that they will create and distribute videos of member's responses who oppose WO ?
I have seen many articles in the Review, and the Pacific Union Recorder that directly and subtly support women in pastoral leadership. I have never seen even one article in either of those journals giving the apposing view point.
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ColporteurK

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2014, 06:25:40 AM »

 Yes,  #5 as worded gives impression that there will be responses from members on both sides of the issue.

They should have worded it as follows:  # 5. Create and distribute videos of member's responses to female pastoral leadership who support women's ordination.


As stated it is by implication misleading and untruthful unless we see some change where they create videos  which include responses of those against WO. We already know that this is not going to happen.
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GraceVessel

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2014, 06:26:37 PM »
Just throwing my .02 in here... but even tho I don't support women's ordination... what about the swallow the camel analogy?  I mean... the non-hetero and liberal agenda is to stretch SDA doctrinal uniqueness to nominality?  (spelling?). In the grand scheme of things... the secular view in our culture (NAD) is total women/men equality.  So why do we go out of our way to "accentuate the negative parts of Women's ordination"...  it's kinda like getting mad at the horse cuz it's left the barn?

... stand there... look at the hay and chat?

What's the plan (even within SDA culture) to put a positive spin on this (hidden agenda) ... from a legal and procedural perspective.. why aren't we dealing with the non-hetero and other liberal issues that are behind Women pastoral equality in the culture?   

Or am I missing something...   is it preferable for me for us to have women pastors (no)... but it's MORE non-palatable to have the other stuff in whatever fellowship I choose to attend in the future (assuming I attend regularly)?

Other denom's watch how SDA leadership handles stuff like this... if we are gonna go down fighting.. should we really be majoring on the minors?

just doesn't make sense...

with kind regards,

Gracevessel
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ColporteurK

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2014, 06:47:30 PM »

 I think the difference Grace is that some do not view WO as a minor thing. True, it is a symptom of a bigger problem. However, that could be said of every symptom of a bigger problem. Do we then just speak repeatedly that we need to be converted and surrender our hearts ?  If a parent has a confused or a rebellious child shall the parent not discuss with the child, the improper use of the ipad, or how they speak to others disrespectfully, or ________ ?
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ColporteurK

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2014, 06:49:25 PM »
Quote from: sdazeal on April 19, 2014, 04:00:25 PM
What I meant was that there is nothing new about "helpful editing" ( to use the EGW Estate's words) to Ellen White's writings to make them appear to support currently held views. Of course, people like us talking about it is seen as worse than actually doing it. The "helpful editing" of Ellen White's writings is something we are supposed to keep secret, lest people lose confidence in those writings. That is why I said, "nothing to see here, move along"....

As was shown, the "helpful editing" of Sr White's quote had the direct effect of changing the meaning of the comment, which of course Angel Rodriguez took advantage of.

Got honesty, anyone?

They have been doing that brother with these new Bibles for years.
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newbie

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2014, 07:43:28 PM »
Quote from: sdazeal on April 19, 2014, 04:00:25 PM
What I meant was that there is nothing new about "helpful editing" ( to use the EGW Estate's words) to Ellen White's writings to make them appear to support currently held views. Of course, people like us talking about it is seen as worse than actually doing it. The "helpful editing" of Ellen White's writings is something we are supposed to keep secret, lest people lose confidence in those writings. That is why I said, "nothing to see here, move along"....

As was shown, the "helpful editing" of Sr White's quote had the direct effect of changing the meaning of the comment, which of course Angel Rodriguez took advantage of.

Got honesty, anyone?
sad but true....
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Ed Sutton

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Re: NAD's Agenda to Establish Women's Ordination Before 2015 GC Vote
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2014, 10:31:58 PM »
RE changing EGW writings, a Jewish Rabbi - can see things in her writings we non jews  overlook and do not realize are there.

So to keep those multiple level messages alive for deeper readers to discover and be attracted to we need to leave EGW Books - as EGW Books as she wrote them, not REWRITTEN EGW Books.  We often do not see what we are overlooking, but others who are willing to be lead are lead to see.

http://www.sdadefend.com/Believe-Prophet/ElfredLee.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtZ1DKWXcbs

*****************************

Closer back to topic > WO - dealing with it is not finishing the work - if the work = evangelism only.

But if the work is to imitate Christ utterly and totally - letting Him plan for us, as Father God planed for Him day by day, then defending Christ's teachings and honour, in this and other matters in the Church, is imitating how Christ defended Father God's teachings and honour in God's House back then.

Call on Christ to lead and instruct in dealing with the WO controversy, just as He did during the storms upon the sea of Galilee each time.

http://new.livestream.com/kytnsda/events/3040392
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 10:49:53 PM by Ed Sutton »
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Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 While it is true that God gives the message from Scripture and SOP. The taste I give to others about the message sells it or kills it, I learn to walk it well & cook it well & eat it myself, before I preach it.  Then the SDA message appeals by His righteousness.

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