Neckties are Bad Now? Really?

[sdazeal]

Was confronted at church yesterday during potluck by a lady who wanted to educate me on the history of the necktie. She said it originated during slavery as a method of controlling slaves....and that my necktie was a symbol of slavery. I researched this a bit and of course found the woman to be full of baloney. But really, condemnation of ties? Don't I have enough to worry about without that?

[Raven]

I believe ties originated long before slavery in this country.  What nonsense!  Having said that, I can't for the life of me understand why ties came to be an accepted part of dressing for church or business.  They are basically a non-functional adornment.  If one wants to argue against ties, that would be the place to start.  But, it's required in some professions, and has become an accepted part of church attire.  Fortunately it is no longer required in many churches.  It hardly makes sense (to me at least) to wear a suit coat and tie along the Gulf Coast in the middle of July.  But it is quite comfortable in the winter up north.  But to condemn someone for wearing one is way out of line.  We've come full circle.  50 years ago, most men wouldn't dare come to church without one.  At our local church, I can count on one hand those who wear them, at least in the summer.   That number increased a bit in the winter.

The principle that applies is that we dress our best for church.  For some, their best may not be as nice as others.  But, if we were going to have an audience with the Queen of England, I doubt that any of us would dare appear in cutoffs and T-shirt.

[Larry Lyons]

Up until sometime during the 1960s or thereabouts, fashions were dictated by the upper and upper middle classes. A suit and tie or slacks and sport jacket and tie were required for most special occasions. In the large city ghettos, young men having a "night on the town" were careful to dress "up" if they wanted to look "cool." There was a tipping point during the late 60s or for sure by the early 70s when all that changed. The styles started being dictated by the "lower classes." The trend was fueled by the "hippies" and men started dispensing with neckties. I recall in the early 70s when a prominent professor of psychiatry at a prestigous institution showed up at a morning meeting wearing corderoy pants and no tie. He was making a statement. In his case it was a political statement. That was probably around the time of the "tipping point" when dressing down instead of dressing up became acceptable in some parts of the business and professional world, and has continued to this day and is sometimes carried to extremes.

I believe that what we wear to church may be a theological statement. Perhaps we should give some thought as to what our clothing might be saying.

[newbie]

what was the motive?

[Larry Lyons]

what was the motive?

Newbie, if you are asking about Dr. K., he said it was his response to Spiro Agnew, President Nixon's disgraced Vice President, who was Nixon's pit bull. Agnew's rhetoric was very harsh and insulting, accusing Nixons's "enemies" as being "effete intellectual snobs" or something like that. and insulting to anyone who disagreed with Nixon's agenda and the Viet Nam war. Dr. K. was signaling his identification with the other side which included the hippies and the protesters against the Viet Nam war. He may have personalized some of Agnew's insults. Dr. K. graduated magna cum laude from Yale, but he certainly was no snob.

Spiro Agnew resigned from the Vice Presidency to face criminal charges for accepting bibes and kickbacks as governor of Maryland.

[Richard OFfill]

I just called my son who works at the General Conference. Business casual is an option, that is slacks without a tie.

[sdazeal]

Raven, during the summer I go with a nice shirt, slacks and tie. I am a blue-collar type worker during the week (diesel mechanic) , wearing faded blue jeans and t-shirts most of the time. I like to dress nicely for Sabbath, even for afternoon meetings or any church service, since the principle is the same. I have never understood why some people are militant about dressing in suits for Sabbath Morning services because "we are in the rpesence of God", but the same will dress down for Sabbath afternoon meetings in the same sanctuary. Then again, I know people who dress "up" for their jobs who wear jeans and tees to church! People are strange sometimes.....

I know that EGW wrote that every man should have a "Sabbath Suit". I do, but often leave the jacket off during the summer.

[Larry Lyons]

Raven, during the summer I go with a nice shirt, slacks and tie. I am a blue-collar type worker during the week (diesel mechanic) , wearing faded blue jeans and t-shirts most of the time. I like to dress nicely for Sabbath, even for afternoon meetings or any church service, since the principle is the same. I have never understood why some people are militant about dressing in suits for Sabbath Morning services because "we are in the rpesence of God", but the same will dress down for Sabbath afternoon meetings in the same sanctuary. Then again, I know people who dress "up" for their jobs who wear jeans and tees to church! People are strange sometimes.....

I know that EGW wrote that every man should have a "Sabbath Suit". I do, but often leave the jacket off during the summer.

Zeal, It makes no sense to wear a jacket in hot weather. Ellen White was very practical person and I'm sure she would agree. We don't have air conditioning in our church so I often do not wear a jacket during the summer. Once in awhile I will wear a Barang Tagalog which is a Filipino shirt buttoned at the top and is not tucked in the trousers. They are very comfortable in hot weather and Filipino men wear them on formal occasions.

I have noticed that one of the preachers at one of our big University churches has been copying Rick Warren, by preaching in an Hawiian shirt. I don't know if he is wearing socks of not. I have noticed on TV that some preachers of other denominations are preaching in jeans. That is an example of being driven by trying to look contemporary like the Louie Giglio types. It may work for Giglio, but it is certainly not for everyone. Someone should tell them that they look funny in jeans.

[ColporteurK]

     Wear Comely Garments for the House of Worship.-- Many need instruction as to how they should appear in the assembly for worship on the Sabbath. They are not to enter the presence of God in the common clothing worn during the week. All should have a special Sabbath suit, to be worn when attending service in God's house. While we should not conform to worldly fashions, we are not to be indifferent in regard to our outward appearance. We are to be neat and trim, though without adornment. The children of God should be pure within and without.  {CG 531.2}

This sounds formal and something that one would not normally wear. Obviously that might change a bit in tropical
climate.

    Work Supplied to Needy Families.--There were many here who were poor and in need. Men who were trying to serve the Lord and keep His commandments could not provide food for their families, and they begged us to give them something to do. We employed them, and they ate at our table. We gave them suitable wages until their families were fed and comfortably clothed. Then we let them go to find work somewhere else. Some of them we had to provide with a suit of Willie's clothes, to make them fit for Sabbath meetings.--Letter 33, 1897.  {WM 332.3}

Personally, I have  not worn a tie for a few years. I do not condemn those that due  or consider it a sin in most cases. I have seen ties that are so flashy however that they seem like adornment. In my case I do not see a need for one and think I look just as well dressed without. I like the simplicity and it is one less thing to put on. I feel cluttered with a tie. I have a nice black suit and black shoes that I only wear for Sabbath with a nice dress shirt, usually blue.

[newbie]

doens't matter to me...necktie or no... 

modest, clean clothes, your best

I do know that some consider necktie to be adornment others like it to serve as a bib for their food...LOL

I would not wear one if there is any kind of trouble...

[Jim]

     Wear Comely Garments for the House of Worship.-- Many need instruction as to how they should appear in the assembly for worship on the Sabbath. They are not to enter the presence of God in the common clothing worn during the week. All should have a special Sabbath suit, to be worn when attending service in God's house. While we should not conform to worldly fashions, we are not to be indifferent in regard to our outward appearance. We are to be neat and trim, though without adornment. The children of God should be pure within and without.  {CG 531.2}

Let me fist say that I agree with the statement but I'm not sure how to apply when your occupation requires suit or dress shirt w/ tie during the the week.  I can't help but wonder if by "sabbath suit" she meant  in today's language a special "set of clothes" that are worn only on Sabbath. I say this because this statement seems to be aimed at everyone not just men.

I rarely wear a suit or sports coat to church. However, I always wear a tie. Even in the hot summer months. Our church is air conditioned and the 3 hours of church in tie is very comfortable. However, I will admit that once I'm out in the parking lot my tie is off even before I sit down in the car.

However, if someone told me that ties were no longer allowed in church I would not argue with them but happily comply.

[ColporteurK]

     Wear Comely Garments for the House of Worship.-- Many need instruction as to how they should appear in the assembly for worship on the Sabbath. They are not to enter the presence of God in the common clothing worn during the week. All should have a special Sabbath suit, to be worn when attending service in God's house. While we should not conform to worldly fashions, we are not to be indifferent in regard to our outward appearance. We are to be neat and trim, though without adornment. The children of God should be pure within and without.  {CG 531.2}

Let me fist say that I agree with the statement but I'm not sure how to apply when your occupation requires suit or dress shirt w/ tie during the the week.  I can't help but wonder if by "sabbath suit" she meant  in today's language a special "set of clothes" that are worn only on Sabbath. I say this because this statement seems to be aimed at everyone not just men.

I rarely wear a suit or sports coat to church. However, I always wear a tie. Even in the hot summer months. Our church is air conditioned and the 3 hours of church in tie is very comfortable. However, I will admit that once I'm out in the parking lot my tie is off even before I sit down in the car.

However, if someone told me that ties were no longer allowed in church I would not argue with them but happily comply.

I agree that a suit seems to be referring to the entire wardrobe. It seems to imply that it is something that is not ordinary and that it is something complete. She does not say a jacket, or shirt or trousers but a "suit." She may have been talking more to the men (but including all) as women tend to dress up  more anyway and since leadership was predominate male they therefore set the first example. In our church most men dress quite causal even when standing behind the pulpit. You can see that same reflected throughout much of the congregation. Particularly behind the pulpit is a sacred place. It saddens me when men wear the same clothing that you  might see them wearing up town. It may not be work clothes  but it ought to be more special than what one might wear   
to go to a town meeting. Since women only wore dresses I'm trying to  visualize what a Sabbath suit would be for a woman. Perhaps a dress, sweater, and shoes . Personally, I have a special pair of  shoes that I only wear on Sabbath so the Sabbath suit would be from head to toe.

I see members and non members taking up the offering with shirt tails hanging out and in casual clothing. The same up on  the platform. I would like to see the brothers  in dress pants, suit coat and a dress shirt unless the heat would prohibit wearing the jacket and even then we can at least start  out that way. Jesus died for  us. We can dress our best for the occasion