Really don't wanna be an adventist anymore but I am stuck with it...

[GraceVessel]

I kinda thought I would end up here at the end of the journey... couple months past my wife's death... crickets... My pastor is still solid .. but I've resigned my positions ... reasons pertaining to respect and fealty.. none of which abide in the leadership of the local church I attend. 

I am still looking to fellowship and worship with other adventists.. havent asked to have my name taken off the rolls yet... There is a social component to attending church, and it's very integral to retaining a safe and adequate fellowship in which to freely worship.

Sad to say... but that is fast disappearing.

With friends like this... who needs enemies. 

Truthfully, if I would known at the start of my journey as an adventist "culture phobe" that my "acceptance" was solely "behavior based".. I would have saved myself the trouble.

I still love God, and want to follow Jesus... it's my hope and prayer to keep that a priority... however... I'm stuck in a church that is..

1) a cult
2) totally behavior focused and based and biased
3) lacking any doctrinal direction.

Unforunately I dont want to fellowship with "adventist" minded people and am still an adventist (closest doctrinally).

It presents a quandry from which I will attempt to solve as time moves on.

with kind regards,

Gracevessel

[newbie]

GV  have you read Charles Fitch's book?  It is really where we all should be and most are not...

Heres is the link for others too that might be interested... it is free and only 33 pages but great great stuff.

http://temcat.com/08A-Prayer-Prom/Christian-Experience-Charles-Fitch.pdf

[GraceVessel]

I read over a good portion of the book and have done alot more thinking about things.

To boil it down... there are two lives we live... one we learn with..
The other we live with after that...

The 28FB, EGW source dilemma being what it is (pink elephant that the church will never touch or deal with).  Pretty much forces me (as I am trying to be totally upfront and honest with myself and what I actually believe and trust in) to "detach" from the adventist church at this time... name is still on rolls.. (as if that matters) ... I guess it doesnt technically since most adventists view themselves as part of the remnant first and a christian second... sad but true.  I want to be part of God's kingdom and worship him in spirit and in truth (insert causal discussion here with a myriad of opinions).. but I want to do it from the inside out... and i am speaking for myself... but cultural norm dictates within adventism that the GC has the last word regarding doctrine (catholic), the local church is always subjective to the pastor (and/or conference rep).  I have come to the conclusion that what I believe MUST be bible based and that thru my committed study to God's (according to the promise that he will never leave us or forsake us).

1) I have some grieving left to do regarding my wife's passing
2) Being solely focused on being centered within myself must be a priority in order to move forward.
3) Making myself vulnerable to God's direction regarding my future doesn't involve the SDA church. I may return with God's leading... but it's not directive. It's where I end up.  Not where I am going.
4) I am not defined by being "adventist"... rather I hope to be defined for being "aligned" with Adventism as my singular journey towards determining truth leads. 
5) Taking the 28FB and EGW writings ... carte blanche without really thinking ... doesnt work for me anymore.
Would rather be accused of being a Christian and have the evidence to back it up... not just having the "membership tag" define me.

(cont)

[GraceVessel]

A few people have reached out to me regarding returning to church (usually related to some activity, choir, mowing grass,etc)... and thats cool and all... but only one or two are like ... take as much time as you need to grieve... we are interested in you as an individual and pray that you will work your grief out between you and God... it's pretty much obvious that the "attendance" is the main focus.

Thus -- my "tithe" and presence in the church is significantly more important that my need to heal and worship free and clear.  It's STILL about behavior.  I will give them and "A" grade for consistency on that.  Adventism is a cult. /sigh there I said it.  It's ultra depressing.   It's really weird living outside the bubble.

Time to chew some other gum....

with kind regards,

Gracevessel

[foofighter]

Praying for you GraceVessel...I understand much of what you say. 

Carol

[Raven]

GraceVessel,  I'm sorry you've had so many unpleasant experiences in your association with the SDA Church.  Jesus didn't fare to well in that department, either.  And he's had plenty of company over the centuries.  At least they haven't tied you to a stake and lit a fire, yet.  It's not about attendance or tithe, per se.  Those are clear Biblical mandates, of course; it's more about truth.  No matter how you've been treated, or how bad things have been, it doesn't change the truth.  Job seemed to understand that, as did the disciples when everyone was deserting Jesus.  They realized that there was nowhere else to go, because Jesus had the truth.  If you don't believe the doctrines of the SDA Church, that's one thing.  But apparently you did believe them at one time, or you would not have joined the church.  Maybe it's time to go back an study them again.  I've studied them for decades, and their validity only becomes clearer as the years pass.  Having said that, I don't profess to understand everything.  There are still many questions.  But the evidence in their favor is overwhelming.

When we look to man, we will always be disappointed and frustrated.  Focusing on Jesus and His Word is the only solution.

[newbie]

May God Bless you GV and bring you to understanding and full knowledge of Him through your time of trial.  May you open yourself to the love of Jesus that can and will purify the heart of all unrighteousness and give you peace, joy, and love.  This is what we all need and seek no matter what the trial.

[Larry Lyons]

Gracevessel, I can't say that I know how you feel, because I haven't experienced what you have, but I can see that you are in pain. I pray that God will give you relief and guide you in your spiritual walk. I am not going to presume to give you advice, but I will relate to you something that pastor Leroy Moore has written, and it may sound a bit heretical to some. His career has included ministering to those who have left the church. I don't have the direct quote at hand, but He wrote that if a person feels that remaining in the church is a violation of their conscience, then leaving is the safest thing to do.
I am by no means suggesting that this is your situation. God knows exactly what your spiritual needs are and He is well able to guide you in your walk with Him.

I pray and trust that He will do this with you.

[V. Hahn]

Dear GraceV,

Raven has already beat me to it, but I want to second what he said...Look to Jesus and keep trusting in Him. He is the ONLY one who will never let you down.  Our loving Savior suffered many disappointments and sorrows.  He knows what you're going through even if no one else on earth does.  May He hold you in the palm of His hand and give you peace, brother.

[GraceVessel]

I've come to the conclusion that I never thought I'd every reach... it's time for me to stop living a lie.... namely I don't fully agree with the "Remnant concept"  of the SDA church being "the truth"... per se.  The Sabbath (as part of a restorative relationship with ) I agree with totally.  The "culturalized Sabbath" of Adventism I don't..  

There are some hard facts you face when living single.  Namely, you have to ask yourself very hard questions about what motivates you, who or what are you living for... etc etc..

I'm in the process of requesting that my name be taken off the rolls... the SDA church is about controlling others behavior pure and simple... it's mostly veiled under the auspice of EGW Writings, the 28FB and our hyper-focused doctrinal bias and quasi-health message.

It's a very sad time, but the axiom... to thine ownself be true... keeps coming up to my mind.  For me to continue to "ride the train" doesnt seem approriate or feel right.   Better to stand for something than to go along with the "masses" and stifle what you know to be true (whatever that happens to be).

I may sometime in the future end up in the SDA church... it pains me very much to leave it.  Jesus trod the winepress alone... and it just so happens if your adventist.. you will too... the placation of "behavior-modification ad-nauseum" will be your lot.


Not sure if you want me still on the boards or not.  Either way I understand.  I've learned alot here.

with kind regards,

Gracevessel

[Larry Lyons]

I've come to the conclusion that I never thought I'd every reach... it's time for me to stop living a lie.... namely I don't fully agree with the "Remnant concept"  of the SDA church being "the truth"... per se.  The Sabbath (as part of a restorative relationship with ) I agree with totally.  The "culturalized Sabbath" of Adventism I don't..  

There are some hard facts you face when living single.  Namely, you have to ask yourself very hard questions about what motivates you, who or what are you living for... etc etc..

I'm in the process of requesting that my name be taken off the rolls... the SDA church is about controlling others behavior pure and simple... it's mostly veiled under the auspice of EGW Writings, the 28FB and our hyper-focused doctrinal bias and quasi-health message.

It's a very sad time, but the axiom... to thine ownself be true... keeps coming up to my mind.  For me to continue to "ride the train" doesnt seem approriate or feel right.   Better to stand for something than to go along with the "masses" and stifle what you know to be true (whatever that happens to be).

I may sometime in the future end up in the SDA church... it pains me very much to leave it.  Jesus trod the winepress alone... and it just so happens if your adventist.. you will too... the placation of "behavior-modification ad-nauseum" will be your lot.


Not sure if you want me still on the boards or not.  Either way I understand.  I've learned alot here.

with kind regards,

Gracevessel

Gracevesse, I am sorry your experience of the Adventist church has been so negative. If you truly do not think this is where God wants you, it would be unhealthy for you to remain. However, I pray that the Holy Spirit leads you and that you will respond in a positive way should He indicate that you should return.
I see no necessity for you to leave this forum. You don't have to be a church member to be here. The guidelines apply to every one, church member or not.
I wish you well whatever your decision.

Larry.

[Raven]

I echo the sentiments of Larry.  I can't add anything to that, so I won't try.

[Carl]

GraceVessel, sorry to hear what you wrote, some of it is true, you will get very discouraged and even angry when you look at the actions and words of people in any SDA church, especially with so many turning to the "progressive" tragedy so popular today. Perhaps your looking at the physical church too much?

My only suggestion to you is to try and change focus a little and form a closer relationship with Jesus, truly walk with Him, simplify your life by making Him the center of everything. Seems this would be even easier to do because you live alone, it has me for sure, there are no distractions. Form the concept in your mind, that it's just you and Jesus.

Lastly, this time in history is so crucial like no other to walk with Jesus, how faulty and angering the actions of what's happening in the physical church can be, it is still the remnant church, the church that will go on to see Jesus return. Those weeds that cause discouragement and discontent today will be shaken out soon and the true remnant will remain. Very bluntly, it is the devil that is trying with all his might to discourage and lead minds away, and he is a master at doing his craft using other people and everything he can to do his deeds.

Please Gracevessel, walk closer with Jesus, talk to him because He's standing right beside you, let Him guide.

Prayerfully,
Carl

[V. Hahn]

Wise words, Carl.  Unfortunately, there will be no perfect church until we get to heaven as Christ's bride!  All unity, love and unselfishness!  Can't wait!

I remember a sermon by Doug Batchelor where he mentioned a survey that asked people why they chose their church.  Some said they chose it because of the beautiful building, the charismatic preacher or the majestic music.  Others go because it was the close to where they lived, others because they had a good children's program, etc.  I saw the survey myself when I worked at a Reformed church and some even chose their church because it had great bathroom facilities!  I'm not kidding!

Batchelor said these aren't the right reasons for choosing a church.  He said something along the lines that as long as the church was preaching and teaching the truth, it doesn't matter if the building is ugly, the pastor isn't eloquent or the people are grumpy.    Truth is the most important thing.  I've always remembered that, and I hope you do, too, GV.

Like Carl said, it is Satan who is tries to discourage you...and us, too.  His time is short and he's REALLY angry!

So keep looking up, GV, and ask God to lead.  He will!

Vicki

[Carl]

it is Satan who is tries to discourage you...and us, too.  His time is short and he's REALLY angry!
So keep looking up, GV, and ask God to lead.  He will!

Vicki

Yes, Vicki, it's like a blanket Satan is pulling over the whole world, every facet of humanity is growing more evil and immorality abounds. You can gauge the time we are in by just looking at the devil's greatly increased activity, he sees his world ending soon. There are things so hideous going on but, the media controls a lot of what we know about or not. Only by fully trusting Jesus can we go through that time coming when they will come after every earthly thing we own.