Keeping up with the Joneses

[Richard OFfill]

Someone has said that in 75% of divorces finance is playing a significant role. It seems to me that debt is to an important extent a result of breaking the tenth commandment.

[Larry Lyons]

Someone has said that in 75% of divorces finance is playing a significant role. It seems to me that debt is to an important extent a result of breaking the tenth commandment.

Yes and it is a sin that is rarely mentioned as sin. In our culture it is not even called a sin. It is blatantly promoted. For non Christians and I believe for many Christians as well, "having everything" meaning all the symbols of success, is the noblest of pursuits.

[newbie]

If they only knew prophecy and the kingdom of heaven they would realize that this earthly treasure is nothing.... nothingness... as Solomon said, vanity...

So many are uninformed and not seeing the richness of heaven.

[Raven]

I believe the 1st commandment plays a part also.  One of the reasons so many people pull out all the stops to acquire so much stuff has a lot to do with pride:  "look an my new car, boat, clothes, etc., etc."  From a worldly point of view wealth=status, and most people want status.  Why else would anyone in their right mind run for president?    So, I don't think I would be too far off in saying that the violation of the 10th commandment often stems from the violation of the first commandment.

[Agatha]

I believe the 1st commandment plays a part also.  One of the reasons so many people pull out all the stops to acquire so much stuff has a lot to do with pride:  "look an my new car, boat, clothes, etc., etc."  From a worldly point of view wealth=status, and most people want status.  Why else would anyone in their right mind run for president?    So, I don't think I would be too far off in saying that the violation of the 10th commandment often stems from the violation of the first commandment.

You are right, Raven. The tenth commandment appears to be a summation of all the rest:

    The tenth commandment strikes at the very root of all sins, prohibiting the selfish desire, from which springs the sinful act. He who in obedience to God's law refrains from indulging even a sinful desire for that which belongs to another will not be guilty of an act of wrong toward his fellow creatures.  {PP 309.5}

[El]

If they only knew prophecy and the kingdom of heaven they would realize that this earthly treasure is nothing.... nothingness... as Solomon said, vanity...

So many are uninformed and not seeing the richness of heaven.

Hi, Newbie:
It seems to me that keeping up with the Jones' is not so important these days as keeping up with our debt to God, groceries for our families and gas in our autos.   EL

[newbie]

Hi, Newbie:
It seems to me that keeping up with the Jones' is not so important these days as keeping up with our debt to God, groceries for our families and gas in our autos.   EL

Hi EL,
Must take care of the debt to our God and only to our needs.  All the rest is of this world.
God Bless,
newbie

[Ruth]

You know, it's funny... very recently, an SDA told me that it was silly to try to avoid debt in this life as we all had to borrow in order to live day-to-day.

Well, I guess to each his own.  As for me, I am more afraid of D-E-B-T that D-E-A-T-H and I avoid it like the plague.

I find First Timothy 6 verse 6 instructive: "...godliness with contentment is great gain."

[Raven]

You know, it's funny... very recently, an SDA told me that it was silly to try to avoid debt in this life as we all had to borrow in order to live day-to-day.

Well, I guess to each his own.  As for me, I am more afraid of D-E-B-T that D-E-A-T-H and I avoid it like the plague.

I find First Timothy 6 verse 6 instructive: "...godliness with contentment is great gain."

"We all have to borrow to live day to day?"  If that's the case, maybe this poor person (who is in reality enslaved to the debt master) needs a rearrangement of lifestyle and priorities.  True, most of us have to borrow at one time or another, but I don't believe it should be expected as a perpetual necessity.

[El]

You know, it's funny... very recently, an SDA told me that it was silly to try to avoid debt in this life as we all had to borrow in order to live day-to-day.

Well, I guess to each his own.  As for me, I am more afraid of D-E-B-T that D-E-A-T-H and I avoid it like the plague.

I find First Timothy 6 verse 6 instructive: "...godliness with contentment is great gain."

You are right, Ruth.  However, I know of friends here in my area who never bought a house for 30 years rather than borrow to buy one.  At the end of the 30 years he had nothing.  He could have owned the home if he had purchased it on convenient terms.    Buying a home is expedient if it is possible.---even on an extended basis.      EL

[Raven]

You are right, Ruth.  However, I know of friends here in my area who never bought a house for 30 years rather than borrow to buy one.  At the end of the 30 years he had nothing.  He could have owned the home if he had purchased it on convenient terms.    Buying a home is expedient if it is possible.---even on an extended basis.      EL

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe even Ellen White borrowed money on rare occasions.  The problem with today's society is that nearly everything is bough on credit by a significant portion of the population.  "Buy now, pay later" is the American motto. 

[Ruth]

I know it may be sometimes be necessary to be in debt for one reason or another, but I do not believe we should approach this matter unreasonably.

In my country you can buy a CHAIR and opt to pay for it in 3 YEARS (never mind that you end up paying more than thrice the original cost in the end), and the great majority of working class people seem to love that option, because it means lower payments - although they could easily pay for it in 3 MONTHS with not much 'squeeze'.  Westerners do not seem to see debt for what it is... enslavement.

But then again, maybe that's just in my little country.

[Raven]

I know it may be sometimes be necessary to be in debt for one reason or another, but I do not believe we should approach this matter unreasonably.

In my country you can buy a CHAIR and opt to pay for it in 3 YEARS (never mind that you end up paying more than thrice the original cost in the end), and the great majority of working class people seem to love that option, because it means lower payments - although they could easily pay for it in 3 MONTHS with not much 'squeeze'.  Westerners do not seem to see debt for what it is... enslavement.

But then again, maybe that's just in my little country.

Things are no different here in the US--just multiply by 100 and you get the picture.  Most people do not have the patience to wait for something; they want it now.  Even the local large retail store has eliminated their lay away program, so you either have to be disciplined enough to set the money aside at home, or use your plastic.  They want you to use a credit card because they get the money right away, and don't really care if you can pay if off or not.

[Agatha]

I know it may be sometimes be necessary to be in debt for one reason or another, but I do not believe we should approach this matter unreasonably.

In my country you can buy a CHAIR and opt to pay for it in 3 YEARS (never mind that you end up paying more than thrice the original cost in the end), and the great majority of working class people seem to love that option, because it means lower payments - although they could easily pay for it in 3 MONTHS with not much 'squeeze'.  Westerners do not seem to see debt for what it is... enslavement.

But then again, maybe that's just in my little country.

Oh, no - it is KING here. That is why we are in this mess. Everyone who wanted to keep up with the Joneses went into incredible debt to do so. Many went into debt because they felt they deserved the things they bought, whether or not they could afford them. We are a country of requiring instant gratification. Debt is a certain enslaver. The next several years in this country will be quite awful because those debts have either come due, or are soon to come due.

 

[Raven]

Unfortunately many people in other countries have taken their cue from the greedy US consumers, and so the problem is spread around the world--unless you are living on a dollar a day and are still tilling your land with a plow drawn by an ox.  These poor people have missed the "boom," but they have also missed the "bust."  And maybe they also have learned to appreciate a bit more what they have, instead of coveting all the latest "toys."  Their main concerns are getting enough food to feed their families, and keeping them sheltered and clothed. By contrast many in this country have so many clothes they can't decide what to wear.   And they have so much food, they have to figure out how not to gain weight. Try explaining that to a poor farmer in the "3rd world."

I wonder how many in the western world fall under the condemnation of James 5:1-6?  Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.  Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.  Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.  Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.  Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.  Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.