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Author Topic: They Call It Legalism  (Read 16327 times)

Arnie

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2009, 02:24:45 PM »
Quote from: Larry Lyons on January 14, 2009, 06:56:31 PM
Greetings Mindbender, and welcome to the forum!
I totally agree with what you say. I think many of us do not have a high enough concept of what it means to keep the Sabbath. I have noticed that conversation before and after church services and at potluck, for example, often does not indicate that we are "remembering"  the Sabbath to keep it holy, but instead we are talking about the same things that concern us during the rest of the week.

I totally agree Larry. I attend the only conservative church here in the mountains where I live. This church is at a ski resort so we get many visitors and many conference workers and "important" people because of the location of the church. The conversations right before the church service, after the church service in the sanctuary and during potluck are about skiing, working, construction work, cars, sporting activities, etc. etc. This type of conversation even comes from conference workers and pastors besides the regular members. It makes me wonder how many have read Vol. 5 Testimonies on "Behavior In The House Of God." Often I hear... "As long as the person means well, or has good intentions, that is all that matters." One person went on to say that there is a story about a man who worked on the Sabbath doing plumbing. A job in which he performed during the other 6 days of the week.  As long as his heart or intent was good, God would accept his working on the Sabbath because he was trying to witness to those while working. So to them, if I was to work at a gas station, factory or grocery store on the Sabbath, I am ok then if my intentions are good.....I am hearing quite a bit of this type of talk lately. As long as your own intentions are good, God will accept those good intentions. It amazes me how intentions now play the deciding factor in many peoples lives instead of obedience to God and what God asks us to do. There is a difference in "my best intentions in what I think" compared to "doing my best in what God thinks" and has asked me specifically to do. My best intentions might go against what God wants, and what pleases Him. It should be, what can I do to the best of my God given ability in honoring and glorifying Him in what He has asked me to do according to Scriptures.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 02:27:39 PM by Arnie »
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Larry Lyons

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2009, 06:03:25 PM »
Quote from: Arnie on January 18, 2009, 02:24:45 PM
I totally agree Larry. I attend the only conservative church here in the mountains where I live. This church is at a ski resort so we get many visitors and many conference workers and "important" people because of the location of the church. The conversations right before the church service, after the church service in the sanctuary and during potluck are about skiing, working, construction work, cars, sporting activities, etc. etc. This type of conversation even comes from conference workers and pastors besides the regular members. It makes me wonder how many have read Vol. 5 Testimonies on "Behavior In The House Of God." Often I hear... "As long as the person means well, or has good intentions, that is all that matters." One person went on to say that there is a story about a man who worked on the Sabbath doing plumbing. A job in which he performed during the other 6 days of the week.  As long as his heart or intent was good, God would accept his working on the Sabbath because he was trying to witness to those while working. So to them, if I was to work at a gas station, factory or grocery store on the Sabbath, I am ok then if my intentions are good.....I am hearing quite a bit of this type of talk lately. As long as your own intentions are good, God will accept those good intentions. It amazes me how intentions now play the deciding factor in many peoples lives instead of obedience to God and what God asks us to do. There is a difference in "my best intentions in what I think" compared to "doing my best in what God thinks" and has asked me specifically to do. My best intentions might go against what God wants, and what pleases Him. It should be, what can I do to the best of my God given ability in honoring and glorifying Him in what He has asked me to do according to Scriptures.
Amen Arnie!
"There is a way tht seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." (Proverbs 14:12)

I think your post may be an indication of how easy it will be for some to rationalize breaking the Sabbath when keeping the Sabbath will involve severe legal penalties.
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Dalfie

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2009, 08:36:28 PM »
Arnie, your description (apt, by the way) made me think of an old saying that shows the very fallacy of the idea that God accepts anything, as long as the intentions are good. Interesting that even the secular world sees the problem!

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
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In my hand no price I bring; simply to Thy cross I cling.

colporteur

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2009, 09:06:43 AM »
Quote from: Dalfie on January 18, 2009, 08:36:28 PM
Arnie, your description (apt, by the way) made me think of an old saying that shows the very fallacy of the idea that God accepts anything, as long as the intentions are good. Interesting that even the secular world sees the problem!

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."


I was wondering if one or more of our forum search hounds could help me find a SOP quote. I thought I had it saved but cannot find it and do not recall where iin the the SOP we are told that those doctors and nurses that must necessarily work on Sabbath give the money earned during Sabbath hours to the church.

I appreciate any help.
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Ruth

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2009, 12:16:07 PM »
Quote from: colporteur on February 04, 2009, 09:06:43 AM
I was wondering if one or more of our forum search hounds could help me find a SOP quote. I thought I had it saved but cannot find it and do not recall where iin the the SOP we are told that those doctors and nurses that must necessarily work on Sabbath give the money earned during Sabbath hours to the church.

I appreciate any help.

Is this what you're looking for, Cp.?

Quote
Physicians need to cultivate a spirit of self-denial and self-sacrifice. It may be necessary to devote even the hours of the holy Sabbath to the relief of suffering humanity. But the fee for such labor should be put into the treasury of the Lord, to be used for the worthy poor, who need medical skill but cannot afford to pay for it.--Health, Philanthropic, and Medical Missionary Work, page 42.  {MM 216.2}

I found this in Section Eleven of Medical Ministry on the EGW CD... the section is entitled, The Sanitarium Family.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 12:20:31 PM by Ruth »
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Greg Goodchild

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2009, 10:23:14 PM »
Legalism is best described as Adam and Eve making clothing for themselves out of fig leaves. They did not go to Jesus for help and they decided that by their own works they could stand before a holy God clothed in fig leaves. When they surrendered their filthy self made garments to Jesus and allowed Him to clothe them with garments that He had made for them then they were righteous and holy.

Sabbath is the same. Man made efforts to please God produce legalism and death. But when we cooperate with God and obey His Word then we experience righteousness and holiness. To be holy one must surrender to Jesus and obey Him in all ways including Sabbath.
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V. Hahn

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2009, 11:07:23 AM »
Beautiful, Greg!
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Greg Goodchild

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2009, 11:12:15 PM »
Zechariah 3:1-8
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Alpendave

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2011, 03:13:57 PM »
Here is my definition of legalism: Using the letter of the law to justify one's violation of its spirit.

This can be done in two ways essentially. Both of them utilizing tactics a lawyer might use to get someone off the hook whom he knows to be guilty.

1) Disprove the charge -- basically the traditional understanding of what a legalist is. It is the claim that one has kept and is keeping the law in a technical sense, like the rich young ruler and the Pharisees. It involves literal compliance to the wording of the commandments and may even embellish them so as to stay within the technical bounds of the law's requirements.

2) Disprove the obligation -- legalistic move typically employed by antinomians. These people often claim that those who keep the commandments are legalists. However, they are just as legalistic as those in the first group because they are employing a technical legal argument to free themselves from the obligation to keep the law -- that the cross has rendered obedience obsolete.

Either way, these two groups totally miss the point that the law is a transcript of God's character of infinite love. They use their legal arguments to make up for the fact that they are at variance with the love that is the principle behind the law. The results are the same either way.

It's interesting to note that God Himself testified that in keeping the Sabbath, Israel (and us) was to be reminded that it is God Who sanctifies us and makes us holy. In other words, rather than being a legalistic relic of the Old Covenant, the Sabbath, properly understood and observed, is a safeguard against legalism.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 03:17:43 PM by Alpendave »
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newbie

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2011, 09:06:15 PM »
Quote from: Alpendave on August 10, 2011, 03:13:57 PM
It's interesting to note that God Himself testified that in keeping the Sabbath, Israel (and us) was to be reminded that it is God Who sanctifies us and makes us holy. In other words, rather than being a legalistic relic of the Old Covenant, the Sabbath, properly understood and observed, is a safeguard against legalism.
I love that!! :-D
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Richard OFfill

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2012, 12:40:26 PM »
Someone asked a friend of mine what it means to 'keep' the Sabbath. He told  me that he replied something like, 'well we don't do this and we don't do that' later he told me that is know way to keep the Sabbath! It has to be more than what we don't do. It seems that what to 'do' on Sabbath presents itself on Sabbath afternoon.
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ColporteurK

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2014, 07:22:34 PM »
 A brother called me tonight and wants to attend our church this Sabbath. It will be a 115 mile drive for him. His former church ( I call it the "Pastor Pounder") has gone through about 6 pastors in about 10 years and is once more without a pastor. One pastor is now a Sunday keeper. This brother's  current church will not be holding a service this Sabbath. They will be meeting at another church (non SDA) and then the ecumenical group will be doing a community service washing cars. Therefore he would like to visit our church. This brother is none to conservative but even he can see that washing cars is not worshipping God.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 07:43:16 PM by ColporteurK »
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Ed Sutton

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2014, 07:52:18 PM »
I am glad he chooses to try to keep Sabbath Biblically.   Please help him, even if he is a bruised reed, or a smoking flax.
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Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 While it is true that God gives the message from Scripture and SOP. The taste I give to others about the message sells it or kills it, I learn to walk it well & cook it well & eat it myself, before I preach it.  Then the SDA message appeals by His righteousness.

sdazeal

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2014, 10:17:52 PM »
Who's been smoking flax?
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Ed Sutton

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Re: They Call It Legalism
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2014, 01:15:14 AM »
One of CP's church brothers with a long commute to church.
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Grateful for Psalms 32 and Titus 2:10 While it is true that God gives the message from Scripture and SOP. The taste I give to others about the message sells it or kills it, I learn to walk it well & cook it well & eat it myself, before I preach it.  Then the SDA message appeals by His righteousness.

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