Tithing question ?

[ColporteurK]

A friend called me to day and asked some questions. One was about tithing. The tithing question was not a matter of if but where. There is a quote that I read many years ago where EGW gave tithe to a retired SDA pastor whom the conference was neglecting financially. It has been many years ago since I read the quote and have since lost track of it. Does anyone here know of the quote or its location ? I would appreciate  help finding the quote. It seems to me that it is in less known area like Spalding or some letter.

an hour or so later...



I think I have found what I am looking for. Mrs. White said not to give notoriety to this. I understand why. It might be used as a green light for people to pay tithe everywhere and anywhere under any circumstance. Cancel the order. 

[newbie]

Yes, there were a few occasions when GOD told EGW to give to others when the conference was not taking care of things...  but those are the exceptions...

just read something this last week where she said that we can tell something about a person in how they treat God...if they are not faithful to Him and rob Him, they will do the same to you...

she used some hard words...  I guess 'by their fruits' you will know them.

I'm always reminded of the widow with 2 mites and how Jesus commended her... and back then the system was corrupt.  So, what does this tell us?

[newbie]

Yes, there were a few occasions when GOD told EGW to give to others when the conference was not taking care of things...  but those are the exceptions...

just read something this last week where she said that we can tell something about a person in how they treat God...if they are not faithful to Him and rob Him, they will do the same to you...

she used some hard words...  I guess 'by their fruits' you will know them.

I'm always reminded of the widow with 2 mites and how Jesus commended her... and back then the system was corrupt.  So, what does this tell us?

here it is....

Those who will not hesitate to deal treacherously with their Maker will certainly not hesitate to deal treacherously with their fellow men.  {TDG 349.3} 

[Listen]

I'm always reminded of the widow with 2 mites and how Jesus commended her... and back then the system was corrupt. 
This comment makes me wonder where could tithe have been given back then to further the work.   Were there any missionaries going to other countries back then?

Those who will not hesitate to deal treacherously with their Maker will certainly not hesitate to deal treacherously with their fellow men.  {TDG 349.3}
If the money is going to further God's work and not for selfish reasons, is that still dealing treacherously with their Maker? 

Am not advocating anything, just wondering.

[newbie]

if you are faithful God will pour out blessings to you...

if you are not faithful, you will receive the curse by your own choosing...

Yes, the widow with two mites gave all... and Jesus commended her and back then the system was corrupt...

we are to stay with the ship as Paul says in Acts 27.... Moses and Aaron were almost stoned to death by ancient Israel and yet they stayed with them another 40 years...

our system is corrupt but still better than the others here on earth...

giving back what God has already given us is actually for our own good... it is acknowledging God and all that He has done for us...

He only asks for 10% and lets us have 90%...but if you give a double tithe, you will reap the rewards...that 10% is His and is Holy.
He only asks for 1/7th of our time and the rest is ours...but remember that the 1/7th is His and is Holy Time...

[Listen]

Luke 21:
1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

Newbie,  what does this have to do with a corrupt system and staying with the ship?  And my original question.

[dedication]

Luke 21:
1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

Newbie,  what does this have to do with a corrupt system and staying with the ship?  And my original question.

Where was the poor widow casting her last two pieces of money?
Wasn't it into the temple "offering plate" -- the same system that was selling sacrificial animals and robbing people with their requirement to exchange ordinary money into temple money and then charging exorbitant prices.  Wasn't this the temple treasury that Jesus called a "den of thieves"?  Wasn't it supporting the Pharisees and Sadducees and priest that were plotting to kill Jesus?

Why didn't Jesus run up to the widow and tell her, don't put your last bit of money into that treasury it won't be used for any good purpose --

Yes, there was proselytizing (encouraging Gentiles to accept the Jewish religion)  going on. 
Remember when Paul and his companions went on their mission trip, they would first meet with Jewish groups which included Gentiles that had accepted the Jewish religion. 

Remember when the Christian leaders had to settle what information to give to Gentiles  they mentioned:
Acts  15:21   For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. 

There had definitely been proselytizing going on.  In fact history shows they had quota's to meet, as to how many Gentiles they converted to Judaism.   They also had rather rigorous rituals, studies, and circumcision for the men that had to be met.
Jesus wasn't too complimentary on their proselyzation policies either --
Matt. 23:15  ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 

Yet, Jesus commended the widow for giving her last bit of money to this system.

[dedication]

I guess the question is --

What or where is the "Lord's storehouse"?

Obviously a person who believes the Adventist message is the message to go to the world in these last days, will consider the Adventist treasury as the "Lord's storehouse".

We all look to the conference treasury to give us money to put on evangelistic meetings, to send missionaries, and to pay pastors, etc. etc.  The money has to come from somewhere and when the money isn't coming in, we soon see it in cut backs, and less pastors, etc.  Right now our district doesn't have a pastor, and the assumption is the conference is dragging their feet on getting us a pastor because of the sharp decline in the economy which has also caused a drop in tithes.

So  for Adventists, the "Lord's storehouse" is the Seventh-day Adventist Church Treasury.
Israel actually paid at least 20% of their earnings to the Lord. 
So we can give 10% tithe, and on another 10% we have more choice as to where it goes to further God's work.

But what about other people who believe differently,  or have no church affiliation, yet still want to serve the Lord with tithes and offerings?  Where do they take their tithe?
Do we tell them our church is "the Lord's storehouse", or are they free to give it anywhere they think it will d o the most good.     
I noticed the thread began concerning a couple that weren't Adventists, but thinking about tithing.

[newbie]

Luke 21:
1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

Newbie,  what does this have to do with a corrupt system and staying with the ship?  And my original question.

God can further the work with only 3% but He asks us for 10% because I believe He knows all about corruption and the things going on today.  There is nothing new under the sun...corruption will always exist until we go home.  I'm saying that no matter what, we give to the storehouse.  Unless God redirects you for a specific case as in EGW's day for the ministers of the southern work.
If I've misunderstood, please correct me or rephrase your question.

[Listen]

I'm sorry I used the wrong word in asking this ?

This comment makes me wonder where could tithe have been given back then to further the work.   Were there any missionaries going to other countries back then?
  I should have used the word gifts or money as is used in Luke 21:1.  And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.   And Mark 12:41-44 
41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

In this scenario it sounds to me like Jesus was showing the disciples that it isn't the size of the gift that matters.

"The act of the widow who cast two mites--all that she had--into the treasury, is placed on record for the encouragement of those who, struggling with poverty, still desire by their gifts to aid the cause of God. ...Thus He taught that the value of the gift is estimated not by the amount, but by the proportion that is given and the motive that actuates the giver.  AA 342"


This is interesting.  Thanks didn't know that.
In fact history shows they had quota's to meet, as to how many Gentiles they converted to Judaism.

[ColporteurK]

I believe the Lord commended the widow not as a protocol that the tithe must go to the local church. The point was that she gave what little she had in spite of circumstances.

While money is given ( sometimes) from the local conference for evangelism sometimes the only evangelism that the conference will allow and support is a sorry sort. The Lord's storehouse is a lot bigger than your local church or even conference.

It is interesting that Mrs. White said the local conference is the "best" place to send our tithe. I find that wording interesting. It is interesting that she did not say " only." There are instances and times where it is not wise to send it that direction. Mrs. White herself sent tithe to support a retired and neglected pastor. She did not make a big issue out of that for obvious reasons. It is very easy to divert tithe for the least little reason.

One person said that they would send in tithe if the devil were the treasurer. I would too if he were the only available treasurer. However, the devil is not the only treasurer. Paying tithe is a non negotiable. However the idea that it must be sent to a conference that uses it to push WO, spiritual formation, and a host of other things that is worse than doing nothing with it when there are conferences and ministries that are clearly spreading the straight Three Angel's Messages,.... is flawed.

Personally, I do not believe sending our mites to the local conference is necessarily wrong even if we know that our mites are being used to build a golden calf. However, it is also not a sin to support ministries and ministers that are and have been faithfully doing God's work and are being neglected by the abuse of the tithe. If it is, then EGW was sinning as well. I do not believe she was.

[Raven]

In the debate over where the tithe should be deposited, one thing that never gets mentioned is the fact that Jesus allowed Judas to be the treasurer for the group, knowing full well that he was a thief, and therefore misusing the Lord's money.  Just a thought. 

It is nearly impossible for a normal layman to trace the funds once they've left the local church and determine what is being used properly and what is being misappropriated.  I put my tithe in the plate and trust the Lord to deal with any who may misuse the funds.

[ColporteurK]

In the debate over where the tithe should be deposited, one thing that never gets mentioned is the fact that Jesus allowed Judas to be the treasurer for the group, knowing full well that he was a thief, and therefore misusing the Lord's money.  Just a thought. 

It is nearly impossible for a normal layman to trace the funds once they've left the local church and determine what is being used properly and what is being misappropriated.  I put my tithe in the plate and trust the Lord to deal with any who may misuse the funds.

Do you think we should invite a person to be treasurer in our local church today that we know will be stealing money ? Mrs. White tells why Jesus allowed Judas into the group. The main reason was because Jesus knew something that we cannot know. Jesus knew the bigger picture, that being that Judas would do far more harm on the outside of the group than on the inside where Jesus could temper his moves.

While we cannot directly trace our funds we can see the fruit of the ministry/ conference and what they are promo9ting and not promoting. I talked w a more conservative mainline conference president about this out east. He sent me tithe envelopes.

Our literature preaches 24/7 and the literature work has been shamefully neglected by most of the mainline church. It used to be that a portion of tithe was given to this work.

Having said that Raven, I do not consider that you do wrong by closing your eyes and putting tithe in the plate. 

[Raven]

Do you think we should invite a person to be treasurer in our local church today that we know will be stealing money ?

I did not mean to  imply that.  I don't think it would be wise to choose a treasurer who had just been released from prison, after having served 10 years for embezzlement.  We are not to tempt anyone or put them in a position that we know would be a strong temptation.  My point was that the Lord's money should go into His treasury, and we should trust Him with the results.  If we have first hand knowledge of mishandling the Lord's money, then I wouldn't have a problem sending my tithe to another conference.  It's an individual decision.

[newbie]

Do you think we should invite a person to be treasurer in our local church today that we know will be stealing money ?

I did not mean to  imply that.  I don't think it would be wise to choose a treasurer who had just been released from prison, after having served 10 years for embezzlement.  We are not to tempt anyone or put them in a position that we know would be a strong temptation.  My point was that the Lord's money should go into His treasury, and we should trust Him with the results.  If we have first hand knowledge of mishandling the Lord's money, then I wouldn't have a problem sending my tithe to another conference.  It's an individual decision.

Only Christ knew Judas was stealing...