Uncomfortable with Justification?

[El]

Probably pride is more difficult to identify than adultery and tends not to be as flagrant. I believe often people comment on pride when they wish to take a light stance on other thing. What appears to be pride may not be anymore than an attempt to cover inferiority. Many times when people brag about their accomplishments it is not because they are proud but that they are trying to be somebody because they think they are nobody and good for nothing. It may not be that they are trying to be better than others but that they want to be esteemed as well as others.

Pride is more difficult to distinguish--but didn't the pride and vanity of Lucifer start the rebellion in heaven?  Lucifer was envious that he had not been included in the creation of the world.  Lucifer wanted to exalt himself.  There is no justification for the the terrible sin of Lucifer, the lightbearer--His pride and covetousness talked himself right into becoming Satan.  And one third of the angels listened, Eve listened, Adam chose to go the way of his wife, and here we are today. It all started with pride and coveting.  We still see it in our churches everytime the nominating committee works for the good of the church. Pride and envy is prevalent, and you are right, only God can deal with that kind of sin.  What does all this have to do with justification?  It is a personal thing and I guess that we all have to deal with it in our own way.  Can we be justified with these sins in our hearts?

[He Did It ALL]

Sanctification is also not a destination, it is a process.

For me Sanctification happened in an instant. One moment I was unsanctified and the next .... I was sanctified.

And I now remain sanctified.

Sanctification by Faith. I gave my heart to God and I became sanctified. Set apart to be used by God.

I don't really like the term 'Justification by Faith". I prefer the term "Salvation by Faith".

No matter how much faith I have .... I can't be justified. I am sinful. But, I do have salvation because it was given to me. Why? Because HE is justified. Not me.

[Jim]

For me Sanctification happened in an instant. One moment I was unsanctified and the next .... I was sanctified.

Sanctification is not the work of a moment, an hour, a day, but of a lifetime. {AA 560.3}

[Larry Lyons]

For me Sanctification happened in an instant. One moment I was unsanctified and the next .... I was sanctified.

And I now remain sanctified.

Sanctification by Faith. I gave my heart to God and I became sanctified. Set apart to be used by God.

I don't really like the term 'Justification by Faith". I prefer the term "Salvation by Faith".

No matter how much faith I have .... I can't be justified. I am sinful. But, I do have salvation because if was given to me. Why? Because HE is justified. Not me.

He Did It All, do you believe in the doctrine of once saved always saved?

[Raven]

For me Sanctification happened in an instant. One moment I was unsanctified and the next .... I was sanctified.

And I now remain sanctified.

Sanctification by Faith. I gave my heart to God and I became sanctified. Set apart to be used by God.

I don't really like the term 'Justification by Faith". I prefer the term "Salvation by Faith".

No matter how much faith I have .... I can't be justified. I am sinful. But, I do have salvation because if was given to me. Why? Because HE is justified. Not me.

Justification of the saints is a Biblical doctrine.  Rom. 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith . . . .  Titus 3:7 says that we are "justified by His grace."  James 2:21 says that Abraham was "justified by works."  Rom. 8:30 says that God justifies those whom He calls.  So, to say that you cannot be justified is unbiblical.  By accepting Jesus as one's personal Saviour, one is automatically justified, but not sanctified, as was pointed out by Jim.  If you accept the SOP, then you must accept the fact that sanctification is, as previously stated, is process which lasts a lifetime.

[newbie]

For me Sanctification happened in an instant. One moment I was unsanctified and the next .... I was sanctified.

And I now remain sanctified.

Sanctification by Faith. I gave my heart to God and I became sanctified. Set apart to be used by God.

I don't really like the term 'Justification by Faith". I prefer the term "Salvation by Faith".

No matter how much faith I have .... I can't be justified. I am sinful. But, I do have salvation because if was given to me. Why? Because HE is justified. Not me.

What's the way.... how did it happen for you?  Can you tell us what we need to do to have what you have..... sanctification imparted.....  we all desire this...  Tell us please how to be at this point... 

[He Did It ALL]

He Did It All, do you believe in the doctrine of once saved always saved?

No.

I am sanctified ... or ..... set apart to be used by God. But, although I am set apart .... I do slip and become selfish.

I do fail.  But I am not sure that being "set apart" means that I will alway succeed. I don't know. We don't slip in and out of God's good graces like a yo-yo. I think that when we fail .... we are still in His good Graces and considered in the family of "set apart". And those set apart ask forgiveness when they become selfish and miss the mark.

Not sure if any of this makes sense to you?

[He Did It ALL]

What's the way.... how did it happen for you?  Can you tell us what we need to do to have what you have..... sanctification imparted.....  we all desire this...  Tell us please how to be at this point... 

I became 'set apart to be used by God' at an early age. I had good faithful Adventist parents and teachers. Baptism was a big point in my life. I became set apart to be used by Him at that point. While I have been set apart .... I still do slip and not show that at times. But that does not remove the fact that I am still 'set apart to be used by God'.

I am glad that you also desire this. All you have to do is to give your heart to God and allow Him to direct you life. That is all it means ... saying to Jesus that you want to be set apart for His service.

[He Did It ALL]

But, I do have salvation because it was given to me. Why? Because HE is justified. Not me.

I have salvation because of HIS justification .... not mine. I have no good in myself. Nothing I can do will make myself worthy. But I am counted as good because I accept Him .... and HE is justified through what He did 2,000 years ago.

[Larry Lyons]

No.

I am sanctified ... or ..... set apart to be used by God. But, although I am set apart .... I do slip and become UN-Set Apart

I do fail.  But I am not sure that being "set apart" means that I will alway succeed. I don't know. We don't slip in and out of God's good graces like a yo-yo. I think that when we fail .... we are still in His good Graces and considered in the family of "set apart".

Not sure if any of this makes sense to you?

Yes, it makes perfect sense and I agree. God does not treat us like a yo yo. We may need to clarify  our definitions a bit but I think we are on the same wave length.
I believe that sanctification means being set apart for divine use, but it includes an inner cleansing and changing that the Holy Spirit does within us as we study the Word and bring our lives into conformity to His Word. That continues a process of sanctification which makes us more and more fit to be used for holy purposes.
I can agree also that it does happen in an instant. The moment we repent and give our hearts to the Lord and commit our lives to Him, we are declared "not guilty" of the sins of our past lives. Thats what justification is. At the same moment we are "sanctified" or set apart for Divine use and the cleansing and refining process starts.  Jesus is our Advocate and our High Priest who is ever watchful and ever ready to lift us up and plead his blood before the Father in our behalf when we stumble and fall. He will never let us go as long as we do not willfully turn away from God and reject His grace and go back to our old ways.  
As I see it, that gives us assurance of salvation, not because we have confidence in ourselves that we have "arrived"  but we trust Jesus as he ministers in our behalf in the sanctuary in heaven.  

Justification means that a person who is actually guilty, is declared not guilty. Jesus never needed justification because He was never guilty. "The wages of sin is death." Sin requires the death penalty. Jesus who is God and who is guiltless, became  man and died in our place. He has the perfect right to declare us not guilty or "justified" the instant we repent, ask God's forgivness  and commit our lives toi Him. 

[He Did It ALL]

Yes. I do think that we are pretty much in agreement. Except I would say we remain Sanctified until we declare we don't want to be. It is completed. We are sanctified. It is not a process. It is a done deal. Now, it would seem to me that 'growth' would be a process. But the act of setting yourself apart to be used by God  ....  is not a process. Either you do it or you don't.  Either you allow your life to be sanctified or you do not. But I do agree that we will continue to grow in the Lord and get to know Him and serve Him better as life goes on. That is the task of a lifetime. We will never stop growing. We will always have sins to overcome.

[Raven]

Yes. I do think that we are pretty much in agreement. Except I would say we remain Sanctified until we declare we don't want to be. It is completed. We are sanctified. It is not a process. It is a done deal. Now, it would seem to me that 'growth' would be a process. But the act of setting yourself apart to be used by God  ....  is not a process. Either you do it or you don't.  Either you allow your life to be sanctified or you do not. But I do agree that we will continue to grow in the Lord and get to know Him and serve Him better as life goes on. That is the task of a lifetime. We will never stop growing. We will always have sins to overcome.

Go back and read Acts of the Apostles, p 560, especially the last paragraph.  It is clearly stated to be a process which lasts a lifetime.  Sanctification means more than just being set apart to be used by God.  In that sense only could it be said to be immediate and instantaneous (such as Paul's experience on the road to Damascus).  But it also means (as Larry pointed out, and as I alluded to earlier) the process whereby the character becomes like Christ's character.  That cannot happen in an instant.  "It is the result of constantly dying to sin, and constantly living for Christ. . . .  It is only by long, persevering effort, sore discipline, and stern conflict, that we shall overcome."  That is obviously a lifelong process.  There is no stopping point this side of the grave or the Second Coming of Jesus.

It seems that we need to agree on a definition of terms or we will continue to talk past each other and be found in disagreement.  I accept the definition of sanctification as found in the Bible and the SOP.

[Larry Lyons]

the word sanctify comes from the Latin prefix "sanct" meaning holy. The definition as found in the dictionary includes the following meanings:
1. consecrate, set apart as holy. 2. free from sin. 3. make legitimate or binding by religious sanction; justify. 4. make productive of conducive to holiness.

God can declare us not guilty of our past sins. He can instantly set us apart for holy use, but we do not reach a level of holiness or completeness or maturity that He would have us reach in an instant. It would be a mistake and obviously not true to claim that we have now been made completely holy. Our growth in Christ is in response to the workings of the Holy Spirit as we feed on God's word. That is the process of sanctifcation. It means being made holy in addition to being set apart for holy use.

So my point is, like Raven's, is that we have been set apart by God for holy use but that is not the whole story of sanctification. 

[He Did It ALL]

I accept the definition of sanctification as found in the Bible and the SOP.

I'm glad to hear this. Let's look at the Bible.

The Bible says a house is sanctifed. Also, garments. A Tabernacle. Instruments. Vessels. Dead people.  A Sheep Gate. A Tower.

It talks about people 'sanctifying themselves'.

He speaks of those being sanctified before they were born.

Throughout the NT ... it says that we ARE sanctified. It talks about it being a done deal. Completed.

Through out the OT and NT it speaks of many specific individuals who ARE sanctified.

No where do I see that those who ARE sanctified are in some kind of incomplete process. The only process there is ... is that of growth. I think you are confusing 'growth' with being sanctified.

How long would it take for a house to be sanctifed. Also, garments. A Tabernacle. Instruments. Vessels. Dead people.  A Sheep Gate. A Tower.
These things do not have lifetimes. And again ... The Bible says that they ARE sanctified. They don't have to keep striving to be sanctified. They ARE.

I would point out that the book of Jude was written to those who ARE sanctified. He doesn't address it to those who are 'workin at it'.

In the next post ... I will provide some Bible texts for your consideration.

[He Did It ALL]

2 Chron. 7:16   "For now have I chosen and sanctified this house"

Lev. 8:30   "And Moses took of the anointing oil, and of the blood which [was] upon the altar, and sprinkled [it] upon Aaron, [and] upon his garments, and upon his sons, and upon his sons' garments with him; and sanctified Aaron, [and] his garments, and his sons, and his sons' garments with him. "

Num. 7:1   "And it came to pass on the day that Moses had fully set up the tabernacle, and had anointed it, and sanctified it, and all the instruments thereof, both the altar and all the vessels thereof, and had anointed them, and sanctified them."

Num.  8:17  " For all the firstborn of the children of Israel [are] mine, [both] man and beast: on the day that I smote every firstborn in the land of Egypt I sanctified them for myself. "

1 Sam.   7:1   "And the men of Kirjathjearim came, and fetched up the ark of the LORD, and brought it into the house of Abinadab in the hill, and sanctified Eleazar his son to keep the ark of the LORD."

1 Sam. 16:5   "And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice."

2 Chron 7:16   "For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually."

2 Chron 29:15   "And they gathered their brethren, and sanctified themselves, and came, according to the commandment of the king, by the words of the LORD, to cleanse the house of the LORD."

Neh.  3:1   "Then Eliashib the high priest rose up with his brethren the priests, and they builded the sheep gate; they sanctified it, and set up the doors of it; even unto the tower of Meah they sanctified it, unto the tower of Hananeel. "

Job 1:4 -5  "And his sons went and feasted [in their] houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.  And it was so, when the days of [their] feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them."

Jeremiah 1:5   "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

John 17:19  " And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth."

John  10:36   "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? "

Acts   26:18  " To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. "

1 Cor. 6:11   "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Heb.  2:11   "For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified [are] all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren"

Heb. 10:10   "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]."

Heb. 10:14   "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

Jude 1:1   "Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father"