Uncomfortable with Justification?

[lotrob]

I read this article this AM and thought I'd share an extract since I came on the forum and saw the recent comments .  .  .

May 19, 1898 Faith and Good Works.

    . . .            
     "He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me; and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him." This is the only true test of character. In doing the will of God we give the best evidence that we love God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent. The oft-repeated words of love for God are of no value unless that love is made manifest in the life practise. Love for God is not a mere sentiment; it is a living, working power. {b}The man who does the will of his Father who is in heaven shows to the world that he loves God. The fruit of his love is seen in good works.  {ST, May 19, 1898 par. 5}  
     "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." This means more than an assent to the truth that Christ came into the world and died for the salvation of the race. The understanding may be convinced, but the text means more than this. It means entire sincerity. It means faith, intelligent faith, that will cling to the Saviour as the only hope of a fallen world. It means a faith that will grasp the wonderful provision made, and will engage the affections and control the life, resting upon the merit of a crucified and risen Saviour. It means a faith that works by love and purifies the soul. {ST, May 19, 1898 par. 6}  
    
 The apostle James saw that dangers would arise in presenting the subject of justification by faith, and he labored to show that genuine faith can not exist without corresponding works. The experience of Abraham is presented. "Seest thou," he says, "how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?" Thus genuine faith does a genuine work in the believer. Faith and obedience bring a solid, valuable experience.  {ST, May 19, 1898 par. 7}  
    
There is a belief that is not a saving faith. The word declares that the devils believe and tremble. The so-called faith that does not work by love and purify the soul will not justify any man. "Ye see," says the apostle, "how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Abraham believed God. How do we know that he believed? His works testified to the character of his faith, and his faith was accounted to him for righteousness.  {ST, May 19, 1898 par. 8}  
    
 We need the faith of Abraham in our day, to lighten the darkness that gathers around us, shutting out the sweet sunlight of God's love, and dwarfing spiritual growth. Our faith should be prolific of good works; for faith without works is dead. Every duty performed, every sacrifice made in the name of Jesus, brings an exceeding great reward. In the very act of duty, God speaks and gives His blessing.  {ST, May 19, 1898 par. 9}  
    
"Being justified freely by His grace," the apostle Paul says, "through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare, I say, at this time His righteousness; that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."  {ST, May 19, 1898 par. 10}  
    
Here the truth is laid out in plain lines. This mercy and goodness is wholly undeserved. The grace of Christ is freely to justify the sinner without merit or claim on his part. Justification is a full, complete pardon of sin. The moment a sinner accepts Christ by faith, that moment he is pardoned. The righteousness of Christ is imputed to him, and he is no more to doubt God's forgiving grace.  {ST, May 19, 1898 par. 11}  
    
There is nothing in faith that makes it our saviour. Faith can not remove our guilt. Christ is the power of God unto salvation to all them that believe. The justification comes through the merits of Jesus Christ. He has paid the  price for the sinner's redemption. Yet it is only through faith in His blood that Jesus can justify the believer.  {ST, May 19, 1898 par. 12}  
    
The sinner can not depend upon his own good works as a means of justification. He must come to the point where he will renounce all his sin, and embrace one degree of light after another, as it shines upon his pathway. . . .  {/b}{ST, May 19, 1898 par. 13}    . . .     Mrs. E. G. White.   < there's more in the article but it exceeds 5000>

[newbie]

some believe that justification and sanctification happen at the same time at baptism...

[Larry Lyons]

some believe that justification and sanctification happen at the same time at baptism...

The Bible makes no mention of baptism of many who were forgiven by Jesus on the basis of their faith in Him. Was His forgiveness actually conditional?

[lotrob]

some believe that justification and sanctification happen at the same time at baptism...

If it does, it must be in connection with baptism by fire!!  Consider all who have gone under the water and came up, left the building and never once turned from self or sin.  In fact, never even turned from either before baptism by water. 

 The sanctification set forth in the Sacred Scriptures has to do with the entire being--spirit, soul, and body. Here is the true idea of entire consecration. Paul prays that the church at Thessalonica may enjoy this great blessing. "The very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:23).  {SL 7.1}
     There is in the religious world a theory of sanctification which is false in itself and dangerous in its influence. In many cases those who profess sanctification do not possess the genuine article. Their sanctification consists in talk and will worship. Those who are really seeking to perfect Christian character will never indulge the thought that they are sinless. Their lives may be irreproachable, they may be living representatives of the truth which they have accepted; but the more they discipline their minds to dwell upon the character of Christ, and the nearer they approach to His divine image, the more clearly will they discern its spotless perfection, and the more deeply will they feel their own defects. {SL 7.2} 
     When persons claim that they are sanctified, they give sufficient evidence that they are far from being holy. They fail to see their own weakness and destitution. They look upon themselves as reflecting the image of Christ, because they have no true knowledge of Him. The greater the distance between them and their Saviour, the more righteous they appear in their own eyes.  {SL 8.1} 
     While with penitence and humble trust we meditate upon Jesus, whom our sins have pierced and our sorrows have burdened, we may learn to walk in His footsteps. By beholding Him we become changed into His divine likeness. And when this work is wrought in us, we shall claim no righteousness of our own, but shall exalt Jesus Christ, while we hang our helpless souls upon His merits."  {SL 8.2} "

[newbie]

lotrob..
great post thanks

Larry,
Most of the promises are conditional...

[Larry Lyons]

lotrob..
great post thanks

Larry,
Most of the promises are conditional...

Perhaps, but when Jesus told the paralytic, "Son, thy sins be forgiven thee" he didn't add, "as soon as you go and get baptized."

[newbie]

Perhaps, but when Jesus told the paralytic, "Son, thy sins be forgiven thee" he didn't add, "as soon as you go and get baptized."

That is true and he did not confess all his sins before Jesus cured him either.... must be something in the 'eyes' or the 'look' of Jesus that makes the heart melt and confess all that he has done and is forgiven. 
And, when one is forgiven and healed the baptism was as if by fire from the divine.  And, Jesus never did one baptism....  it must not have been needed.  By His example, and that would apply to the thief on the cross too.

I wonder if those people realize how blessed they were to have Jesus right there before them?

[God is Good]

1 Cor. 6:11   "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Heb. 2:11   "For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified [are] all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren"

Jeremiah 1:5   "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

[ColporteurK]

 I caught a little of Rick Warren while out driving the other day. Justification was rehearsed at length but not a single mention of sanctification. I guess this is to be expected by a mega church evangelical that is open to all religions. Then he went on to suggest that to truly be healed we need to confess our sins to another person. Their response should be " In the name of Jesus Christ you are forgiven." He said that confessing to Jesus alone is not enough. That sounds entirely Catholic to me. He tried to use Scripture " Confess you sins one to another" to support that.

[newbie]

 I caught a little of Rick Warren while out driving the other day. Justification was rehearsed at length but not a single mention of sanctification. I guess this is to be expected by a mega church evangelical that is open to all religions. Then he went on to suggest that to truly be healed we need to confess our sins to another person. Their response should be " In the name of Jesus Christ you are forgiven." He said that confessing to Jesus alone is not enough. That sounds entirely Catholic to me. He tried to use Scripture " Confess you sins one to another" to support that.

He must be using NIV or another version of the bible.  The KJV says to confess your faults one to another.  There is a difference.

EGW says that our little secret sins do not need to be heard by curious minds.  Confess to God.

[dedication]

The title of this thread is very sad indeed.
It was discovering the topic of Justification, that launched the Reformation.
Adventists say they are a continuation of the reformation.
Why would they be "uncomfortable with justification"

Without justification there is no salvation. 

"for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting life.  John 3:16
 "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Rom. 5:1,




I was a little perplexed over the tension in this thread -- concerning justification.

Upon what grounds is God just, in justifying sinners?
Indeed it is upon the grounds that the Creator Himself took upon Himself humanity, and lived the perfect life that no other human being has lived.
God's law demands absolute perfection of character, and this we don't have.  But Christ lived that perfect life as a human, depending, not on His own Divinity, but upon His Father in heaven.   Then He did more, He took our sins. bearing the guilt of the world, and died upon the cross.

It is by His blood that we are forgiven, and by His perfect life imputed to us, that we are justified.
This is a truth that causes angels to bow in adoration of God's love.   Shouldn't it cause us to be drawn to HIM in love and adoration?

And yes, immediately after Christ's resurrection, before He revealed Himself to the disciples, Jesus first ascended to heaven to receive God's "justification".

Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father. He ascended to the heavenly courts, and from God Himself heard the assurance that His atonement for the sins of men had been ample, that through His blood all might gain eternal life. The Father ratified the covenant made with Christ, that He would receive repentant and obedient men, and would love them even as He loves His Son. DA 790

Word meanings are important.
Justification, in many minds is equated with "forgiveness" only.
But justification in it's full sense means INNOCENT.

You see, Jesus, as a human being, needed to be justified BY THE LAW.
He needed to be declared INNOCENT, by the law.
 
How is one justified by the law? -- only by absolute perfect obedience to the law.
Adam and Eve's justification prior to their sin was a "justification by God's law"
they had no sin, they were in perfect harmony with God, INNOCENT.
As soon as they sinned, they were under the condemnation of the law, no longer in a justified state -- guilty.
 
When Jesus took on the liabilities of human flesh, there was no "grace" available for Jesus.   When He became a man He needed to earn His justification by absolute obedience.   One slip into sin, and His innocence would have been gone, and He would have stood condemned by the law, guilty,  no longer justified by the law.  All would have been lost.
But Jesus did not fail -- He lived, in human flesh, an absolutely perfect live, thus was justified by the law, and declared INNOCENT.

Christ was justified by the law, and in turn credits the repentant sinner with His INNOCENCE,
Romans 3:19   Now we know that whatever things the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may fully realize their guilt before God. 
 3:20   Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
3:23   For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 
 3:24   Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
 

[dedication]

The life of sanctification springs from justification. 

The meaning of being "set apart" for holy living, which is part of the meaning of "sanctification" is very important.

Romans  6:6   Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin. 
 6:7   For he that is dead is freed from sin. 
 6:8   Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:   
 6:10   For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 
 6:11   Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 
 6:12   Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 
 6:13   Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God. 
 6:14   For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Scripture clearly shows that justification releases us from the grip of sin -- like a prisoner on death row, suddenly given a full pardon.  We change our citizenship from this world, to the heavenly city.  We count ourselves as Christ's sons and daughters, dead to sin and alive in Christ.  Set apart for Christ, to walk with Him in the paths of righteousness.

Sanctification -- a life work.    Not so much a "destination" at the end of our lives, but a continuous, daily walk with Christ in humble obedience every day of our lives.   

[Ed Sutton]

Maybe the Bible/SOP concept of justification is unwelcome, if it is more pleasing to learn, join this church and you are delivered from the penalty no just go on sinning.

Sorta says who/what is loved instead of Jesus .    1888 still makes lots of professed SDA's in some circles mad.