Listened to david gates a bit confused....

[A cruce salus]

I just recently listened to one of David Gates sermons and towards the end he made it sound as if Jesus was coming in a few months and that the United States was going to collapse toward the same time. Another thing he said was that to me i should sell me house my car and basically everything i own. I am a little confused here is he making perdictions as to when Jesus is coming and that owning good stuff is a bad thing or what?

[newbie]

I just recently listened to one of David Gates sermons and towards the end he made it sound as if Jesus was coming in a few months and that the United States was going to collapse toward the same time. Another thing he said was that to me i should sell me house my car and basically everything i own. I am a little confused here is he making perdictions as to when Jesus is coming and that owning good stuff is a bad thing or what?

Hi Cruce,

Yes, this is a tactic of David Gates to motivate the sleeping church.  If you listen carefully, David will qualify that he is not time-setting but just getting people to get off their seats and do something.  He was saying the same if you listen to sermons done back in the earlier 2000s.  And you know, if he keeps saying it, someday he will be right.   

newbie

[Raven]

The message of David Gates as described by ACS does not seem to square with Jesus admonition to "occupy 'til I come," nor does it seem to square with SOP counsel.  She plainly says that the Lord will show us when we need to rid ourselves of any assets before it's too late.  Seems like another one of the devil's methods to get us all worked up so we will make foolish decisions.  Sensationalism is not the way to wake up Laodicea.  Reality will do that soon enough, and hopefull not too late for too many.

[newbie]

The message of David Gates as described by ACS does not seem to square with Jesus admonition to "occupy 'til I come," nor does it seem to square with SOP counsel.  She plainly says that the Lord will show us when we need to rid ourselves of any assets before it's too late.  Seems like another one of the devil's methods to get us all worked up so we will make foolish decisions.  Sensationalism is not the way to wake up Laodicea.  Reality will do that soon enough, and hopeful not too late for too many.

Point taken Raven.  But, David has gotten people to do missionary work and to step out in faith by his messages.  He speaks a great deal to the young people and is getting commitments from them to volunteer for missionary work in S.A.  He is also getting $ commitments from the older folk who are not healthy enough to enter into the field at this time.  We need to be doing the Lord's work. 

David's tapes are motivating and there is an excitement to get up and get busy doing the work in the mission field.  He has been coined as the "Doug B. of South America"   I can't think of any other that has done such a wonderful work in South America. 

I would be the first to agree that all this conspiracy jesuit stuff, gov. secret stuff, and economic disaster stuff can take over and divert the mind from the real goals.  It is a snare of Satan for sure.  We must have temperance in all things including the scare tactics.  Having said that, we must not have our heads in the sand but rather in our bibles. 



What do you think 'occupy 'til I come' means?

[V. Hahn]

Dear A cruce,

I listened to a David Gates sermon today (found here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6303273915717327918 "The Coming Crisis", preached in April 2008).

I don't know if that's the same one that you heard, but I heard him say similar things; however, but I understood him differently.   Please don't take this as a criticism or correction, but if I may, this is what I heard instead...

You said "...he made it sound as if Jesus was coming in a few months and that the United States was going to collapse toward the same time."

I heard him say (my paraphrase) that financial analysts predict economic collapse for the US in September of 2008, due to out of control spending, the government printing all the money they need (which makes it worthless), etc.  He was quoting experts who have said this.  He went on to say that God can perform miracles and this may not happen, but that we should be aware of the pending danger.  He also said that he doesn't know when Jesus will return and did not give any specific prediction...(though, of course, he said Jesus is no longer coming soon -- He is coming.  We all know that!)

You said "... was that to me I should sell me house my car and basically everything i own."

I took Mr. Gates to say that when we completely give our heart and soul to the Lord, we don't own our house, our car, etc.--it all belongs to Him.  I didn't hear him say we should sell anything...just put everything we own at God's disposal.

He also said that the SDA's purpose for being is to save souls and prepare them for Jesus' coming.  That we shouldn't worry about a career or saving for retirement, but we should all be missionaries and put all on the line for God.  Only people will be taken to heaven, not things.

That's just my interpretation...poor as it may be.  I highly recommend the above sermon.  It inspired me alot, and I thank God for people like David Gates who don't hold back but tells us things we need to hear in this late stage of earth's history. 

Vicki

[SDA4Life]

I appreciate much of what David Gates does. However I have seen a challenge with some of his messages. I had a friend from academy that got very excited about the messages that Gates was preaching around 2002. The message was not very different from what he is preaching today. What I saw happen with my friend is that it caused him to develop a fire escape religion - "I better get right because the judge is coming." Rarely have I seen this type "conversion" lead to a sanctifying relationship with Christ. Today my friend is back, perhaps deeper than before, in a Laodicean state. There is a difference, albeit a fine line, between proclaiming the 3 Angel's Messages and creating a sensationalized stir. From the messages I have heard from D. Gates he occasionally crosses the line.

[traveler]

Well said, Vicki.

David Gates is all about total commitment to Jesus Christ.  Is it time to liquidate our assets for the gospel?  As we fully submit and commit ourselves to Jesus, He, Himself will answer that question for us is we are honest.  James 1:5  SOP tells us that many will offer their means after it is too late to be useful.

MR No. 1190     Last Sabbath evening the Lord gave me a view of many things, which I will now try to relate. I saw the people of God--some were dormant and stupid; they were but half awake, and did not realize the time we were living in. I saw that the man with the "dirt brush" had entered, and some were in danger of being swept away. I begged of Jesus to save them--to spare them a little longer and to lift them up so that they could get a sight of their situation before it should be forever too late. The angel said destruction is coming like a mighty whirlwind. I begged of the angel to pity, to save, those who were attached to their possessions and were not willing to cut loose from them and distribute them to speed the messengers on their way to feed the hungry sheep, who were dying for the want of spiritual food.

     I could hardly bear the sight of the sheep dying for the want of saving, present truth, while some who professed to believe the present truth were holding on to their property and were letting them die, by withholding the necessary means to carry forward the work of God. As it was held up before me, the sight was too painful, and I begged of the angel to take it away, and remove the painful sight from me. I saw that when the cause of God called for their property, they were sorrowful, as the young man was who had great possessions, and who inquired what he should do to inherit eternal life. I saw that very soon the overflowing scourge would pass over, and sweep their possessions all away; and then it will be too late to sacrifice earthly goods, and lay up treasure in heaven. {16MR 30.2}

David Gates frequently reminds his listeners that once they give themselves 100% to God, everything they own belongs to God to be used and diposed at His pleasure.  Fanaticism and presumption often stand close to faith and obedience.  We each must ask ourselves if we are being motived by "wise stewardship," or "selfishness," if it is the voice of Satan encouraging us to destroy ourselves or the voice of Jesus asking us to sacrifice for lost souls.  Only you, gentle reader, can answer that question for yourself, and you dare not do it in self strength, but by faith, in humility, trusting that God can and will teach you how to follow him if you are willing. Proverbs 3:5-10

Traveler (singing softly to himself as he types..."Are you ready for Jesus to come...")
more sermons by David Gates

[wondering]

I appreciate much of what David Gates does. However I have seen a challenge with some of his messages. I had a friend from academy that got very excited about the messages that Gates was preaching around 2002. The message was not very different from what he is preaching today. What I saw happen with my friend is that it caused him to develop a fire escape religion - "I better get right because the judge is coming." Rarely have I seen this type "conversion" lead to a sanctifying relationship with Christ. Today my friend is back, perhaps deeper than before, in a Laodicean state. There is a difference, albeit a fine line, between proclaiming the 3 Angel's Messages and creating a sensationalized stir. From the messages I have heard from D. Gates he occasionally crosses the line.

There is an excellent sermon that goes along these lines at:

http://www.audioverse.org/displayrecording/958/AlistairHuong-FacingSensationalism

[colporteur]

It may already be too late or nearly so, for some of our people to rid themselves of the things God would have us sell. Here in MI. the housing market is flooded with houses that are not selling. Forclosures are through the roof and empty houses everywhere...at least in my whole section of the state. I believe David is trying to bring our people up to date on putting God first and everything else last. We have been slow to hear and slow to move. Some of us are still waiting for the call to move out of the cities when the call came 100 years ago. Some of us are still waiting to hear that its time to leave off animal products from our diet when the call to leave off cheese came a century ago and not unbias science and our more faithful physicians in the church are telling us today of the many serious life-threatening hazards in these products. I don't think God is going to drop little white paper notes from heaven saying its time. It would be easy if He worked that way.

Several years ago Ed Reid wrote a book "Even at the Door" which shared that Christ was even at the door. Today Elder Reid says that America is strong economically. There seems to be a bit of a holding pattern if not a hint of complacency in his current view that concerns me.

 

[A cruce salus]

I thank you all for your response to my question, and appreciate it when i get solid feedback such as this. The sermon that i had listened to was called (The Approaching Storm). At just about the end of the sermon he got into a few things that seemed to me as SDA4 Life put it were just a tad over the top to me, after i had listened to his sermon and got to the end i felt well.... must be going to Hell because i am not a complete Vegan! Yesss you heard it here first i have not reached that part in my Christian life yet but i almost there lol.
    I agree with his message that all that we have and all that we are are the Lords and that we should be as Mrs. White put it spending money to save souls, and Mr. gates had that all right and i got a blessing out of it, but i would have to say that using scare tactics does not work rather it pushes people into a scared mode.

[colporteur]

I thank you all for your response to my question, and appreciate it when i get solid feedback such as this. The sermon that i had listened to was called (The Approaching Storm). At just about the end of the sermon he got into a few things that seemed to me as SDA4 Life put it were just a tad over the top to me, after i had listened to his sermon and got to the end i felt well.... must be going to Hell because i am not a complete Vegan! Yesss you heard it here first i have not reached that part in my Christian life yet but i almost there lol.
    I agree with his message that all that we have and all that we are are the Lords and that we should be as Mrs. White put it spending money to save souls, and Mr. gates had that all right and i got a blessing out of it, but i would have to say that using scare tactics does not work rather it pushes people into a scared mode.

ACS;

I don't think most of our more alert preachers are using scare tactics anymore than was Noah. The truth is that a few of our people are simply trying to wake up a sluggish church so we are prepared for a time like none other in history.

The following example portrays, at least in part,what I mean.

Some folks say, "I don't want my children to be afraid of people." This is their response when someone says that they are teaching their children to be wary of strangers. I always answer, " I would rather have my children safe, even it they may be a little afraid of strangers than to have  them totally at ease until  perhaps they are kidknapped, sexually abused, tortured, and then either killed or sold as sex slaves and taken to another country for the rest of their lives."
I realize that not every careless child is taken as a victim but what if it is yours ?  While a parent not preparing their child against a possible kidnapp may not necessarily result in tragedy, a lack of preparation for end times and the coming of Jesus will absolutely be tragic.

[SDA4Life]

Preaching about reformation and consecration is always appropriate. Today is the day that we need to be ready for eternity. Preparation (taking sanctification seriously, getting out of cities, return to edenic diet, simplifying our possessions,  etc.) is not something that can wait. This is a main component of sermons that I have heard from David Gates. This I am in full agreement with.

The challenge I have is some of the reasons give as to why. When people begin to specify a time-frame, even with disclaimers, I believe that they are doing a disservice to the recipient of the message. Even when the disclaimer of "I am not date-setting" is given, the concept of mentioning dates in regards to the final events is unwise. It is one thing to say that "Jesus is coming soon!" It is a different thing to say "the final events could very well start later this year." This is where I have seen people resort to a fire escape religion which will often result in spiritual apathy if Jesus does not come within the year.

The bottom line is that if people, who have the knowledge today, are waiting for someone to come along and tell them to put that knowledge into practice, it will probably be too late for them when the end-times come. We do not be needing to look at current events as an indicator of when to "get serious."


On a side-note:

The Three-Angels Messages is an urgent message of repentance and warning that applies directly to our time (the hour of judgment is come!) But, when fully studied, it is not a "turn or burn" message that some make it. It is, critics to the contrary, a wonderful message that demonstrates God's mercy to this sinful world. Why give a final call to repentance when so many had already been given? When people understand the mercy of God they will want to follow Him, not for fear of otherwise being destroyed, but because they will recognize how awesome God truly is. I believe that this is an important distinction between the true gospel and its many counterfeits.

[Raven]

Preaching about reformation and consecration is always appropriate. Today is the day that we need to be ready for eternity. Preparation (taking sanctification seriously, getting out of cities, return to edenic diet, simplifying our possessions,  etc.) is not something that can wait. This is a main component of sermons that I have heard from David Gates. This I am in full agreement with.

The challenge I have is some of the reasons give as to why. When people begin to specify a time-frame, even with disclaimers, I believe that they are doing a disservice to the recipient of the message. Even when the disclaimer of "I am not date-setting" is given, the concept of mentioning dates in regards to the final events is unwise. It is one thing to say that "Jesus is coming soon!" It is a different thing to say "the final events could very well start later this year." This is where I have seen people resort to a fire escape religion which will often result in spiritual apathy if Jesus does not come within the year.

The bottom line is that if people, who have the knowledge today, are waiting for someone to come along and tell them to put that knowledge into practice, it will probably be too late for them when the end-times come. We do not be needing to look at current events as an indicator of when to "get serious."


On a side-note:

The Three-Angels Messages is an urgent message of repentance and warning that applies directly to our time (the hour of judgment is come!) But, when fully studied, it is not a "turn or burn" message that some make it. It is, critics to the contrary, a wonderful message that demonstrates God's mercy to this sinful world. Why give a final call to repentance when so many had already been given? When people understand the mercy of God they will want to follow Him, not for fear of otherwise being destroyed, but because they will recognize how awesome God truly is. I believe that this is an important distinction between the true gospel and its many counterfeits.

Very well said, SDA.  I recognize that the urgency of the message sometimes causes some of its proponents to get a bit carried away.  Unfortunately that sometimes detracts from the truth of the message, as we have seen here.  Over the years I've heard in my own little local church some pretty wild statements, such as, "The Sunday law will come this year because the USA is talking to the PLO"--you can see how long ago that was).  20 years ago one dear saint told me that the they believed that the Sunday law would be enacted that year.  These types of pronouncements do nothing but diminish the credibility of our message in the minds of unbelievers.   I believe the time element should be left out of these messages, since it is purely speculative.  The emphasis should always be "Now is the time!"  We must be ready at all times for our Lord's appearing.  I've heard it said that we should plan for the future, but be ready to leave at a moments notice--that would mean not being so encumbered with the "goods" of this world that we don't want to leave them behind (it's all gonna burn anyway).  I believe that's a reasonable way of looking at it, anyway.

[Deborah Risinger]

A cruce salus...just keep wqlking with Jesus.  It is obvious to me. your desire is of your God. 

Jesus "is salvation."  "He" is salvation.

God certainly has ideals for His people,,,He moves us individually as our relationship with Him unfolds.

 Please, do not allow yourself to think you are lost because you are not yet "vegan." These kind of thoughts will discourage you and rob you of the relationship Christ wants you to have with Him right now,,,each moment of each day...in each experience He has for you.  Learning to find Him at each turn.. He will produce in you the "virtues of His presence" in your life. He will produce them in you "through your living in His presence."

You are doing fine,,,just keep going,,,don't look down,,,keep your eyes on Christ (IE scripture reading, beautiful music that reflects His charater, giving yourself to His work) and you will "become" all that He has in store for you.

God's Blessings'
Deborah 

[V. Hahn]

Beautifully said, Deborah...amen.