Victory over sin before Christ comes? Is it possible?

[A cruce salus]

I was talking to a friend about gaining victory over sin in ones life, and as much as i have come to understand it someone please correct me here if i am wrong; are we to stop sinning before Christ comes, every evil thought, every bad habit, etc..... he did not see that this was possible. And a lot of the times i here the argument when i made a statement to someone about the problems i have in my life are not in line with Gods Will and Law this person and many others just say well....... we all have problems.

Brother and sisters excuse me if i sound mean but i have gotten tired of hearing that i believe when a person makes that statement he or she is making an excuse by looking at another person to justify sin or bad habits in there lives, and i feel It has come down to even amongst us Christians that we need to stop looking at one another and Look to Jesus who ( knew NO SIN!!!).
Will someone people here help me with a better understanding of victory over sin before Christ comes?
                                                                                                                                                  Thank You A Cruce Salus!!!                     

[colporteur]

I was talking to a friend about gaining victory over sin in ones life, and as much as i have come to understand it someone please correct me here if i am wrong; are we to stop sinning before Christ comes, every evil thought, every bad habit, etc..... he did not see that this was possible. And a lot of the times i here the argument when i made a statement to someone about the problems i have in my life are not in line with Gods Will and Law this person and many others just say well....... we all have problems.

Brother and sisters excuse me if i sound mean but i have gotten tired of hearing that i believe when a person makes that statement he or she is making an excuse by looking at another person to justify sin or bad habits in there lives, and i feel It has come down to even amongst us Christians that we need to stop looking at one another and Look to Jesus who ( knew NO SIN!!!).
Will someone people here help me with a better understanding of victory over sin before Christ comes?
                                                                                                                                                  Thank You A Cruce Salus!!!                     

I think I see it the same as yourself. I refuse to create my own theology in order to make room for sin in my life. I refuse to fantasize that Jesus died to save me in my sins. By a miracle of God I will overcome all and be saved. I'm not sure we know just exaclty how the judgemet will go with those who die before Christ steps out of the sanctuary in heaven and mediation for sin stops. While on one hand Luther had not overcome all sin but was growing when he died, on the other hand in the SOP there seems to be inidcation that those who cling to sin and die before all probation closes will be lost. I tend to believe that those who die while there is still mediation for sin may be judged by the trend of the life taking into account one's life experience and from where they came, theirattitude, and spiritual growth. 

[newbie]

Oh yes, I'm one that believes that we can have the victory now.  The bible says it....  in many ways and in many places.  Here is one example:

Jesus said, "Go and sin no more." to Mary M. and to the man at the pool of Bethesda. 

We have to empty of 'self' and be filled with the Spirit of Christ.  Easier said than done.  It is the hardest thing to do.  I've tried to give 2 examples on how to empty of self on this website in the thread entitled "a way of getting self out" and  I'm working on more that I will post at a later time.

http://www.revivalsermons.org/forums/index.php?topic=2435.msg49959#new

Here is a fantastic paragraph written by EGW:  I would hi-lite words that I thought really cool except I would be hi-liting everything!!  This lady was converted! 

I would not miss being present at these early morning meetings; for here I meet my Saviour, and am strengthened and refreshed.

Since I first took my seat in the cars to come on this journey East, I have enjoyed sweet peace in God.

My soul has feasted on the love of Christ.

While on the cars, I have been almost constantly sending up silent prayers to God, and my communion with him has been sweet.

As I have read the Holy Scriptures, the gems of truth have shone with such lustre, and the beauty and harmony of truth has so impressed me, that I could not forbear praising God.

At times, in contemplating heavenly things, my heart has been filled with a rapturous joy and love that is very precious, but that no words can describe.

I love Jesus, I love his law; I want to be like Jesus, that I may reflect his image perfectly. I want to lie low at the foot of the cross, that I may be nothing, and Christ may be all in all.

(RH, April 29, 1884,Article Title: Are We in the Faith?-By Mrs. E. G. White.-)

[reaching4heaven]

Yes, we must overcome all sin in our lives! I, too, am tired of hearing the opposite in church, so after recently reading Psalm 29:2 ("Give unto the Lord the glory due unto his name; worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness." ) I did a study on "beauty of holiness". I have not had time to get all the quotes neatly subtitled, and it is 29 or 30 pages long (a little larger font than normal), but if you want it I will send it to you...just PM me your e-mail address. The following quotes are some I pulled from the document that fit your question.

"The gospel of Christ has been dishonored by being handled with sin-stained hands." - Loma Linda Messages, p 102-3

"God can only be honored when we who profess to believe in Him are conformed to His image. We are to represent to the world the beauty of holiness, and we shall never enter the gates of the city of God until we perfect a Christlike character. If we, with trust in God, strive for sanctification, we shall receive it. Then as witnesses for Christ, we are to make known what the grace of God has wrought in us." -Sermons and Talks Vol 1, p 302

"Obedience to the precious word of God brings the beauty of holiness. That word, whether in the New Testament or in the Old, can not be changed to meet man in his fallen condition. It ever maintains its high and holy standard, saying, "This do, and thou shalt live." All human beings need a standard, and this standard is plainly revealed in God's word, which is the expression of his will. This word reveals to man his defects of character, and the hopelessness of his condition unless he returns to his loyalty. Through faith in Christ all excellence may be reached. The word of God requires obedience to his law, presenting the character of Christ in contrast to the character of men." - RH, 10/17/99

"As Christ's representatives, we are to bear to the world a far higher representation of what the beauty of holiness is. What is holiness?--It is wholeness to God. Our words, our actions, the manner of spirit manifested, is the outward and visible manifestation of what is within, and testifies as to whether we have on the robe of Christ's righteousness, woven in the loom of heaven, or are clothed with our own natural citizen's dress. We are to give evidence to the world in our outward acts as to what is the influence of the truth upon our hearts. The world observes our lives, hears our words, watches and measures our characters by these outward signs, and estimates the truth we profess to believe, according to that which we reveal as having been accomplished by it for us". - RH, 7/18/93

[Ruth]

I really need to get out more, because here I was thinking that people in this neck of the woods were the only ones who formulated that argument, since Jamaicans are known - for the most part - to be rebellious by nature.

In agreeing wholeheartedly with all that has been said before, I need to ask: If an individual says that it is not possible to obtain victory over sin now, isn't it the same as saying that Jesus is not able to keep us from sinning?  Since 1 Cor. 10:13 says that He even goes as far as to provide a way of escape from every temptation, wouldn't they really be saying that HIS Word cannot be trusted?

Sounds like a very dangerous position to take, doesn't it?

[colporteur]

I really need to get out more, because here I was thinking that people in this neck of the woods were the only ones who formulated that argument, since Jamaicans are known - for the most part - to be rebellious by nature.

In agreeing wholeheartedly with all that has been said before, I need to ask: If an individual says that it is not possible to obtain victory over sin now, isn't it the same as saying that Jesus is not able to keep us from sinning?  Since 1 Cor. 10:13 says that He even goes as far as to provide a way of escape from every temptation, wouldn't they really be saying that HIS Word cannot be trusted?

Sounds like a very dangerous position to take, doesn't it?

This may sound rough but it is calling Jesus a liar when we say He can not keep us from sinning. Then there is the part about proving it in our lives. The first step is to believe and profess it. The more difficult part is proving it personally. If we do not believe He can do it than it is highly unlikely that we will strive and conquer because we have lowered the bar.

[El]

Oh yes, I'm one that believes that we can have the victory now.  The bible says it....  in many ways and in many places.  Here is one example:

Jesus said, "Go and sin no more." to Mary M. and to the man at the pool of Bethesda. 

 

I too believe that Jesus can give us the victory over sin.--But I believe that we have to claim that victory every day.  Can each of us say that we have the victory over sin and that from henceforth we shall never sin again?  I believe that Jesus rescued Mary from her sins seven times, right? And I imagine that every time He told her to go and sin no more..     And do we believe that the man at the pool of Bethesda lived his life henceforth without sinning again?  Jesus asks us everyday to sin no more.  When can we be sure that we sin no more?

WHen I punished my children for wrong doing, I always said to them that they should go and never do it again.  But how many times did I have to say the same thing to them again?  As Paul said, " We die daily to sin.". Oh, wretched souls that we are!!!  Daily I ask Jesus to forgive my debts as I forgive my debtors.. 

[El]

. If we do not believe He can do it than it is highly unlikely that we will strive and conquer because we have lowered the bar.

Our lives should be lives lived to please God.  An Olympic Champion never quits trying.  Even when he thinks that he has reached his gold medal he continues to practice and play.  The same with our daily lives.  Letting down the bar is out of the question.  Striving towards perfection is a effort of a lifetime. 

[A cruce salus]

This is GREAT!!! glad i could get some serious input on this subject and a touchy one in Seventh Adventists circles it seems these days.

[A cruce salus]

Yes, we must overcome all sin in our lives! I, too, am tired of hearing the opposite in church, so after recently reading Psalm 29:2 ("Give unto the Lord the glory due unto his name; worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness." ) I did a study on "beauty of holiness". I have not had time to get all the quotes neatly subtitled, and it is 29 or 30 pages long (a little larger font than normal), but if you want it I will send it to you...just PM me your e-mail address. The following quotes are some I pulled from the document that fit your question.

"The gospel of Christ has been dishonored by being handled with sin-stained hands." - Loma Linda Messages, p 102-3

"God can only be honored when we who profess to believe in Him are conformed to His image. We are to represent to the world the beauty of holiness, and we shall never enter the gates of the city of God until we perfect a Christlike character. If we, with trust in God, strive for sanctification, we shall receive it. Then as witnesses for Christ, we are to make known what the grace of God has wrought in us." -Sermons and Talks Vol 1, p 302

"Obedience to the precious word of God brings the beauty of holiness. That word, whether in the New Testament or in the Old, can not be changed to meet man in his fallen condition. It ever maintains its high and holy standard, saying, "This do, and thou shalt live." All human beings need a standard, and this standard is plainly revealed in God's word, which is the expression of his will. This word reveals to man his defects of character, and the hopelessness of his condition unless he returns to his loyalty. Through faith in Christ all excellence may be reached. The word of God requires obedience to his law, presenting the character of Christ in contrast to the character of men." - RH, 10/17/99

"As Christ's representatives, we are to bear to the world a far higher representation of what the beauty of holiness is. What is holiness?--It is wholeness to God. Our words, our actions, the manner of spirit manifested, is the outward and visible manifestation of what is within, and testifies as to whether we have on the robe of Christ's righteousness, woven in the loom of heaven, or are clothed with our own natural citizen's dress. We are to give evidence to the world in our outward acts as to what is the influence of the truth upon our hearts. The world observes our lives, hears our words, watches and measures our characters by these outward signs, and estimates the truth we profess to believe, according to that which we reveal as having been accomplished by it for us". - RH, 7/18/93


My Email is M4a1hammer4@yahoo.com

[reaching4heaven]

Will someone ... here help me with a better understanding of victory over sin before Christ comes?

I read this in RH, Vol 3, page 26 yesterday. It is well written and sums up my thoughts on stopping to sin, so I thought I would share it in a condensed form even though it isn't "inspired".

No Good Reason For Being Discouraged
By E. Hilliard

[Deborah Risinger]

Perhaps this text my add some thought  Rom. 7:14-8:1

Sin is much more complicated (I think) then we often perceive. "Sin" is "self"  it is the "seed" of my existence.  It is not limited to "what I do."

When I (you) become a new creature "in Christ"...I take on Someone else's existence = "Christ's"  ...as I learn to "live His life" and leave "my existence"....God "separates me (you)" from sin...IE....  Rom 7:14-8:1

For our feeble minds, this is somewhat complicated..but.for God...it is His gift to us. 

I do not completely understand...perhaps it is a problem of "vocabulary"...the English language is unable to be completely explanatory...so it limits our understanding toward futher comprehension.  However,,,the Spirit defines to us in our souls, the confidence we can have in our Savior.



14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

God's Blessings'
Deborah   







 

[Lazarus]

Perhaps this text my add some thought  Rom. 7:14-8:1

Sin is much more complicated (I think) then we often perceive. "Sin" is "self"  it is the "seed" of my existence.  It is not limited to "what I do."

When I (you) become a new creature "in Christ"...I take on Someone else's existence = "Christ's"  ...as I learn to "live His life" and leave "my existence"....God "separates me (you)" from sin...IE....  Rom 7:14-8:1

For our feeble minds, this is somewhat complicated..but.for God...it is His gift to us. 

Deborah, your comments remind me of this verse in Romans 8:9 where Paul says:

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

This seems a pretty important aspect of Paul's understanding of salvation.  What did Paul mean by this?

How did one become "in the Spirit", to have the "Spirit of God dwell in you"?

In Acts 19:1-6 Luke depicts an event in which those whom Paul baptized were granted the Holy Ghost.

1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John

[El]

Deborah, your comments remind me of this verse in Romans 8:9 where Paul says:

This seems a pretty important aspect of Paul's understanding of salvation.  What did Paul mean by this?

How did one become "in the Spirit", to have the "Spirit of God dwell in you"?

In Acts 19:1-6 Luke depicts an event in which those whom Paul baptized were granted the Holy Ghost.

Did the Spirit of God come through baptism?  Is the Holy Ghost in Acts 19 synonymous with the Spirit of God in Romans 8?

But my question is,"What is sin?"  The breaking of the 10 commandments?  Is failing to show active and Christlike 'fruits of the Spirit" sin?  Is the omission of helping a neighbor in need sin?  Do we recognize exactly what sin is?  Is feeling frustration with the man who stalls me in traffic sin?  Can a human experience perfection when righteous anger is felt?  And can righteous anger ever be identified and justified?

 

[Raven]

But my question is,"What is sin?"  The breaking of the 10 commandments?  Is failing to show active and Christlike 'fruits of the Spirit" sin?  Is the omission of helping a neighbor in need sin?  Do we recognize exactly what sin is?  Is feeling frustration with the man who stalls me in traffic sin?  Can a human experience perfection when righteous anger is felt?  And can righteous anger ever be identified and justified?

 

We have one definition of sin:  "transgression of the law."  I John 3:4.  Some are sins we actually commit, while others are sins of ommision--according to Scripture.  James 4:17:   Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.   Also, whatsoever is not of faith is sin.  Rom. 14:23.  Jesus got angry on occasion.  Mark 3:5:  And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

Our problem is that we are prone to become angry with the perpetrator of sin, rather than the sin itself.  That is human nature.  It can't be changed without the Holy Spirit.  But I think you probably know all this and I'm not sure I've helped much.