robertparker,The HS was with Jesus when he was in the wilderness. And, the righteous saints will always have the HS with them. But, the HS was withdrawn at the cross or it is very likely that Jesus would not have died.
It does not come right and say it the way we would want it expressed.... but if you read carefully the bulk of the statements point to this... If Jesus is separated from the Father ........... Jesus feared that he would be separated forever from the Father..... (Satan's temptation)........ His extreme agony and the tears of blood in the Garden when the Father begins to separate from Jesus because the sins of the whole world are being laid upon Him. The Father will not have anything to do with sin and will never forgive sin.... He will forgive sinners through Jesus only due to the cross.Here is another point to ponder.... if the HS was still with Jesus could He have died?Another point.... only Jesus Himself could have endured the cross due to His own perfect character...
I think you are right Newbie! If Jesus was separated from God and went through the experiences associated with the second death, how could the HS be with Him?
With further study/reading, this is not apparently truth. Sorry....[/i][/i][Robert]Don't be sorry Newbie! Thank you for making me take another look at this. Further study in the Desire of Ages seems to indicate that the HS was withdrawn from Jesus in the Wilderness, in Gethsemane and on the cross. It was the previous experience of having the HS with Him that sustained Him in these terrible trials. Does that mean we will not have the HS with us during the Time of Trouble without a Mediator?
Quote from: newbie on February 04, 2010, 12:30:44 PMWith further study/reading, this is not apparently truth. Sorry....Don't be sorry Newbie! Thank you for making me take another look at this. Further study in the Desire of Ages seems to indicate that the HS was withdrawn from Jesus in the Wilderness, in Gethsemane and on the cross. It was the previous experience of having the HS with Him that sustained Him in these terrible trials. Does that mean we will not have the HS with us during the Time of Trouble without a Mediator?
With further study/reading, this is not apparently truth. Sorry....
All I know is that Jesus said He "would be with us alway, even unto the end of the world." That's enough for me!Vicki
If that is the conclusion of all, that Jesus was without HS when tempted then where is the example that He was tried and tempted like us and yet without sin.
Christ defeated Satan the same way we are to defeat Satan. Through the power of the Holy Spirit. Had he used his own power even once, we would all be lost. And just like us, he got this power through prayer and fasting, and communion with the Holy Spirit.For forty days He fasted and prayed. Weak and emaciated from hunger, worn and haggard with mental agony,... Now was Satan's opportunity. Now he supposed that he could overcome Christ. {DA 118.1}If Christ's confidence in God could be shaken, Satan knew that the victory in the whole controversy would be his. He could overcome Jesus. He hoped that under the force of despondency and extreme hunger, Christ would lose faith in His Father, and work a miracle in His own behalf. Had He done this, the plan of salvation would have been broken. {DA 119.1}So we know he had to have the spirit in the wilderness, as already stated by Newbie, but I'm still not sure about the cross though. I hope you don't mind my jumping in. This topic is a good one to study.
I am wondering...would it be a misconseption to say...until one committs the unpardonable sin...is he/she completely without the Holy Spirit?
Sorry if someone alread brought up this point. I didn't have time to see if someone already made it. So here goes anywar:Leviticus 5:11But if he is not able to bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons, then he who sinned shall bring for his offering one-tenth of an ephah of fine flour as a sin offering. He shall put no oil on it, nor shall he put frankincense on it, for it is a sin offering.No oil (symbolic of the Holy Spirit) in the sin offering would seem to suggest that as the true sin offering, Jesus on the cross would have been separated from the Holy Spirit