Revival Sermons

Last Day Events and Pillars of Our Faith => Pillars of Our Faith => Topic started by: Tammy on September 05, 2018, 10:07:46 AM

Title: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Tammy on September 05, 2018, 10:07:46 AM
I have been discovering some things about the GC that is news to me.  I'm not referring just to WO, so read beyond this particular paragraph.  Prior to this I have been quoting Ellen White where she says that when the GC is in session with delegates from around the world, we should abide by their decisions (to that effect from 9T).  So I have thought all along that the GC was against women pastors and the NAD is going against them.  Then I find out that the GC is OK with commissioned women pastors, it's just the ordaining of them.  It doesn't seem that a commissioned woman pastor is in line with what the Bible teaches about God's order of things.  Wouldn't they still have authority over the elders in the church?

Then I was listening to David Gates, who I consider to be a credible source, and he's saying that several of our unions have signed some document with the Catholic church agreeing not to say anything against other churches, so therefore we can't really give the 3 Angels Messages.  And have read other things even more shocking, but not sure how reliable the websites.

Then I'm learning of other places where she says that the GC is no longer the voice of God or something like that.  Anybody know of the different quotes and when they were written and where we are at today.  Do we still pay our tithe like usual and let God take care of it?  Or do we pay our tithe to a ministry that we feel is more in line with the Bible?

Then I read where Ellen White said that God allows "apostasies to take place in order to show how little dependence can be placed in man."  Guess that is what it's doing for me, for sure!  Because before I had total faith in the GC when in session.

Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: newbie on September 05, 2018, 06:54:53 PM
still give your tithe because it is a command of God...  give and let God take care of it

GC is not always right...trust in the Word of God....
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Tammy on September 05, 2018, 07:34:09 PM
My question on tithe was not whether to pay it or not, but rather where.
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Listen on September 05, 2018, 08:15:16 PM
Do you read the articles and comments on the Fulcrum7 website?  You will find information there.  And you can ask questions.
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Raven on September 06, 2018, 02:26:12 AM


Then I read where Ellen White said that God allows "apostasies to take place in order to show how little dependence can be placed in man."  Guess that is what it's doing for me, for sure!  Because before I had total faith in the GC when in session.

It's a complicated issue.  The bottom line is that present truth is still valid.  Whatever is done at the GC level does not change any particle of the pillars of our faith.  Even if at the next GC Session it was voted to allow the ordination of women, it would not force any local church to do so.  There is a statement in the SOP (and I always have trouble finding it) to the effect that if things need adjusting at "the head of the work" (I believe that's how it's phrased), God will take care of it.

As for the heresies that have come it, the SOP is clear that this is part of the Shaking.  "God will arouse His people; if other means fail, heresies will come in among them, which will sift them, separating the chaff from the wheat."  5T 707.  Tris is exactly what we've been seeing over the past 50 years or so.  It is the tares that are shaken out, not the wheat.

As for tithe, one must do what their conscience tells them, but I'm not comfortable sending my tithe anywhere else.  I put it in the offering plate at my local church.  I can't know where every penny goes, but God will deal with those who dare to misuse it.
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Listen on September 06, 2018, 04:01:42 PM
There are and have been too many leaders and laity that have/are/will make bad decisions.  Just because people are in leadership positions does not make them infallible.  We are told in SoP that many members and leaders have not been converted.  We were told that apostasy will take place.  Even with all the negative happening this still applies. "Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him  1 Kings 19:18."

Even if the SdA message were to be repudiated (and it is is some parts of the church) does not make it a false message.  The faithful need to go forward with what God's will is for them.
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Tammy on September 06, 2018, 06:21:35 PM
Just because people are in leadership positions does not make them infallible. 

I agree.  But what about the GC when it's in session with delegates from all over the world?
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Tammy on September 06, 2018, 06:23:38 PM
GC is not always right...

What exactly do you know that they have not been right about and how did you find out about it?
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: newbie on September 07, 2018, 03:44:40 PM
where did the widow with 2 mites give?
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Tammy on September 07, 2018, 05:18:38 PM
where did the widow with 2 mites give?

Good point.
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Listen on September 07, 2018, 07:55:39 PM
But what about the GC when it's in session with delegates from all over the world?

I am not aware of any errors coming out of the GC world sessions.  The errors and wrong actions I am aware of have been done by lower level groups or by individual persons. 

I will repeat what Raven said "As for tithe, one must do what their conscience tells them".  Some people live in areas that the conference and many churches are not believing/preaching/living the SdA message.  Their conscience may tell them something different than the next person. 
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Tammy on September 08, 2018, 07:30:55 AM
I am not aware of any errors coming out of the GC world sessions. 

So do you think, then, that commissioned women pastors is supported by scripture?
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Listen on September 08, 2018, 01:42:49 PM
Did that come out of the world church session or a spring or autumn council? 
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Tammy on September 08, 2018, 05:45:48 PM
Did that come out of the world church session or a spring or autumn council?

I understand that women elders came out of an annual council meeting, but I don't know about commissioned pastors.
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: V. Hahn on September 09, 2018, 05:51:20 AM
Tammy, I wish I had more time to answer your questions, but here are a few thoughts...

Here may be the quote you are referencing (published in 1909):

Quote
General Conference in Session Highest Authority—I have often been instructed by the Lord that no man’s judgment should be surrendered to the judgment of any other one man. Never should the mind of one man or the minds of a few men be regarded as sufficient in wisdom and power to control the work, and to say what plans should be followed. But when, in a General Conference, the judgment of the brethren assembled from all parts of the field, is exercised, private independence and private judgment must not be stubbornly maintained, but surrendered. Never should a laborer regard as a virtue the persistent maintenance of his position of independence, contrary to the decision of the general body .... God has ordained that the representatives of His church from all parts of the earth, when assembled in a General Conference, shall have authority. The error that some are in danger of committing, is in giving to the mind and judgment of one man, or of a small group of men, the full measure of authority and influence that God has vested in His church, in the judgment and voice of the General Conference assembled to plan for the prosperity and advancement of His work.—Testimonies for the Church 9:260, 261. {ChL 1.8}

As for tithe, think about what Jesus said about it.  He praised the widow and her mite given at the temple, even though he knew that the church at the time was corrupt.  This article might help:  http://www.adventistsaffirm.org/article/177/previous-issues/volume-20-number-2/in-search-of-the-storehouse (http://www.adventistsaffirm.org/article/177/previous-issues/volume-20-number-2/in-search-of-the-storehouse)

There is so much misinformation floating around these days, so much confusion.  This is as Satan wants it.  Yesterday I heard a few sermons that contained many veiled insinuations that could cause distrust in the Adventist church and her messenger.  If I hadn't been somewhat informed on what he was referencing, I'm pretty sure it would have caused me serious concern.  It was very subtle.

Without the Holy Spirit's help...without a close walk with Jesus...we are sitting ducks for Satan's ploys.  May we keep our eyes on Jesus and pray like never before.
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Oh Hooey on December 21, 2018, 02:53:12 AM
Ted Wilson "said the [2015] vote has nothing to do with women being ordained as local elders, a practice based on church policy that has been in place for several decades. Furthermore, he said, the vote was not related to commissioned ministers, who can be male or female under the church’s policy." https://web.archive.org/.../gc-president-says-ordination.../

https://atoday.org/has-a-general-conference-session-approved-female-church-elders/
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Raven on December 21, 2018, 03:37:46 AM
He's technically correct, but the ordination of female elders was never approved at a GC session.  It was done at one of the annual councils.  It was a big mistake and set the stage for the ongoing debate we're having now.

I am suspicious of anything put out by AT (or Spectrum) because of their liberal agendas and the spin they tend to put on things.

If what they say is true, we wouldn't be having this ongoing debate, since the qualifications for elder and minster are the same.  But the Bible nowhere allows for women to be ordained as elders, and the policy needs to be changed or we will continue to have division over this issue.  and they should stop commissioning female ministers because commissioning sets the stage for ordination later, after the minister has qualified for ordination.  Since women cannot qualify, the practice is unfair and should be abolished.
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: newbie on December 21, 2018, 03:34:00 PM
He's technically correct, but the ordination of female elders was never approved at a GC session.  It was done at one of the annual councils.  It was a big mistake and set the stage for the ongoing debate we're having now.

I am suspicious of anything put out by AT (or Spectrum) because of their liberal agendas and the spin they tend to put on things.

If what they say is true, we wouldn't be having this ongoing debate, since the qualifications for elder and minster are the same.  But the Bible nowhere allows for women to be ordained as elders, and the policy needs to be changed or we will continue to have division over this issue.  and they should stop commissioning female ministers because commissioning sets the stage for ordination later, after the minister has qualified for ordination.  Since women cannot qualify, the practice is unfair and should be abolished.
thumbs up on this one
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: V. Hahn on December 21, 2018, 05:08:21 PM
Below is part of a recent article by Jim Micheff (President of Michigan Conference) about some of the controversies in the church right now.  You might want to read the whole thing though...

https://www.misda.org/news/administration/president/stay-focused---on-the-message (https://www.misda.org/news/administration/president/stay-focused---on-the-message)

Quote
Those who have entered the debate surrounding these issues of contention are getting so embroiled in the controversy that the focus of preparing for the soon coming of Jesus has been forgotten and is no longer the focus.

Quote
Let your mind think about the following scenarios: What if people stopped reading what they see online, refused to argue over differences of opinions, chose to recognize that Jesus Himself, as the Head of the church, has the right to appoint spiritual leaders, and by faith, believe and trust that God will bring His church into the unity that has been promised?

What if we heeded Jesus’ warning in Revelation 3:14-22 and acknowledged that we are spiritually “wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked?” What if we accepted the faith and righteousness that God offers to us and then exercised that faith by believing His promise to “work in us to will and do of His good pleasure?” If we seek clarity from God and pray for wisdom and discernment, we’ll have an opportunity to change the world.

Surely our history would be written differently if we would ask more questions – for when we seek for truth - God will give spiritual understanding and insight. The love of God will transform our selfish hearts and unselfishness will be demonstrated by humility and contentment with whatever responsibility God gives us. The message of a soon coming Savior will dominate the content of our thoughts. Every spare moment will be spent searching the scriptures and then sharing the wonderful things God reveals to us with others. This will be the reality and destiny of all who respond to Jesus’ invitation, “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me,” Revelation 3:20.

Jesus is about to come, and Satan is diligently working to distract us from carrying out the responsibilities God has given each of us. He is trying to get us to focus on the mechanics of ministry rather than the message. He knows that if we embrace the message, his power will be broken, and he does not want God’s mission to be accomplished through us.

My fellow Michigan members, let’s work together here in our territory to put aside the controversial issues surrounding our church and work to accomplish the mission God has given us. There are entire areas in our territory where there is no Seventh-day Adventist presence. We must stay focused on our message. Remember that message will drive mission. Let’s not get distracted. Stay focused on the message – for soon we all want to hear God say these words, “Well done, good and faithful servant . . . welcome home!”

Amen!!
Title: Re: Is the GC still our authority on earth?
Post by: Oh Hooey on December 22, 2018, 12:49:30 PM
There has been a rumor going around that it was only the Annual Council that voted to ordain female elders and commission women pastors. But that is in error. What was voted on at the 1990 General Conference was to change the wording in the Church Manual - gender terminology to allow for women .
 Wilson said the following:

"Elder Neal Wilson finished his background statement by reflecting on the decisions that had been made and “the recommendation that you have before you.” He asked, “Did we make a mistake in authorizing women to be ordained as local church elders? … After lengthy discussion and a lot of prayer, it was felt that … the Holy Spirit had led, and that there was strong support for women to be ordained as local church elders.”

The 1990 GC Session, on July 12, the General Conference delegates in Indianapolis voted 776 to 494 to Ordain women elders.

https://atoday.org/has-a-general-conference-session-approved-female-church-elders/

It should also be pointed out that Ted appointed a committee of the church's best theologians from around the World (TOSC) ...  to study the topic for two years. He also enlisted the prayers of the World Church for this study. After the Study concluded - the vote by a two-thirds majority - was that there was no Biblical reason to not ordain women as Elders and Pastors. At the 2015 convoluted vote - it was made to appear that the World Church did not desire to ordain women as pastors. But that's another story.