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Other Forums => Town Hall => Topic started by: Soli Deo Gloria on August 14, 2017, 07:38:48 AM

Title: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Soli Deo Gloria on August 14, 2017, 07:38:48 AM
In case anyone is interested, here is a link with a petition to sign appealing to end abortion in SDA hospitals.

https://www.change.org/p/seventh-day-adventist-general-conference-end-abortion-in-seventh-day-adventist-sda-hospitals/fbog/70035675?recruiter=70035675&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=triggered
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Raven on August 14, 2017, 05:26:56 PM
I believe this may be one reason so many SDA hospitals are closing.  How can God bless an institution which sees no problem with murdering innocent babies?
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Listen on August 15, 2017, 08:16:31 PM
It seems that Catholic hospitals are staying in business and not allowing abortions.   I think that for many years the only thing Adventist about Adventist hospitals is the name.
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Larry Lyons on August 16, 2017, 06:15:29 AM
Raven and Listen, I agree with you both. The whole sad story is well documented in Vance Ferrel's book "The Broken Blueprint" in which he details the history of Adventist medical work and education following the death of Ellen White as they went on a path different than that which had been provided by inspiration.
Larry.
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Soli Deo Gloria on August 16, 2017, 08:33:19 PM
Unfortunately it was Neil Wilson who said that SDA hospitals needed to do abortions to stay competitive in the market place.
It would be great if Ted reversed his father's position on this.
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Soli Deo Gloria on August 16, 2017, 10:09:48 PM
It seems that Catholic hospitals are staying in business and not allowing abortions.   I think that for many years the only thing Adventist about Adventist hospitals is the name.

I am aware of a situation in which a Catholic hospital and an SDA hospital were bidding for a property to build a hospital. The SDA argument was that they could serve the community better because they offered comprehensive women's healthcare services as in abortion.
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Listen on August 16, 2017, 11:01:29 PM
Did that get them the property?
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Larry Lyons on August 17, 2017, 02:12:34 PM
Unfortunately it was Neil Wilson who said that SDA hospitals needed to do abortions to stay competitive in the market place.
It would be great if Ted reversed his father's position on this.
Stan, I don't know Ted Wilson's position on abortion but he is a seasoned administrator and in terms of using his influence he knows he has bigger fish to fry. Not to minimize the abortion problem, but holding the church together is no doubt at the top of his agenda. I think that there are some politically powerful forces and money on the pro abortion side and it will probably be a major battle to ban abortion in Adventist hospitals. I would think it wise, if Ted Wilson is against abortion (I would be surprised if he wasn't)  to wait until the rebellion problem is ended. Not to be cryptic, but depending on how the autumn council goes, God has a way of fixing things in surprising ways.
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Chris77777 on August 17, 2017, 02:15:48 PM
End abortion in the SDA church.
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Larry Lyons on August 17, 2017, 04:11:45 PM
Unfortunately it was Neil Wilson who said that SDA hospitals needed to do abortions to stay competitive in the market place.
It would be great if Ted reversed his father's position on this.
I may be wrong, but don't think Ted Wilson has the kind of authority that he could do that by executive order. I don't know how abortion was first started in Adventist hospitals, but it is actually a theological/ethical issue. It shouldn't be a medical or a financial decision.
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Soli Deo Gloria on August 18, 2017, 08:39:16 PM
Unfortunately it was Neil Wilson who said that SDA hospitals needed to do abortions to stay competitive in the market place.
It would be great if Ted reversed his father's position on this.
I may be wrong, but don't think Ted Wilson has the kind of authority that he could do that by executive order. I don't know how abortion was first started in Adventist hospitals, but it is actually a theological/ethical issue. It shouldn't be a medical or a financial decision.

You are probably right, Larry.
But I would be happy with a strong statement from him saying that the church condemns the slaughter of the innocents under the banner of the SDA church.
Why do the Catholics hold the moral high ground on this issue?
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Listen on August 19, 2017, 05:40:35 PM
This is an interesting look at abortion in adventist hospitals.



In August, 2013, George B. Gainer published his paper, The Wisdom of Solomon? or The Politics of Pragmatism: the General Conference Abortion Decision 1970-71,
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Soli Deo Gloria on August 19, 2017, 06:44:05 PM
Did that get them the property?

Listen

Here is the article about Catholic vs Adventist hospital.

http://www.nationalreview.com/critical-condition/48084/catholics-not-welcome-maryland-kathryn-jean-lopez

I will look further as to the verdict.
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Soli Deo Gloria on August 19, 2017, 06:47:40 PM
Did that get them the property?

Listen

Here is the article about Catholic vs Adventist hospital.

http://www.nationalreview.com/critical-condition/48084/catholics-not-welcome-maryland-kathryn-jean-lopez

I will look further as to the verdict.

It looks like the Catholic hospital won, despite organized protests to stop the anti abortion hospital.

http://atoday.org/washington-adventist-hospital-to-relocate/

Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Soli Deo Gloria on August 19, 2017, 06:54:11 PM
This is an interesting look at abortion in adventist hospitals.

In August, 2013, George B. Gainer published his paper, The Wisdom of Solomon? or The Politics of Pragmatism: the General Conference Abortion Decision 1970-71,

Here is an excerpt from the article cited by Listen:

In August, 2013, George B. Gainer published his paper, The Wisdom of Solomon? or The Politics of Pragmatism: the General Conference Abortion Decision 1970-71, on the Internet. Gainer, currently the senior pastor of the Pleasant Valley Seventh-day Adventist Church in Happy Valley, Oregon, had written and presented this comprehensive history of the Adventist’s abortion policies in 1988 at the Loma Linda University Conference on Abortion. This conference was “the prelude to the Christian View of Human Life Committee”1 which began meeting in 1989 and which eventually produced the now-official guidelines for abortion which were adopted in October, 1992.

Gainer explains his decision to publish his paper with these words: “The competing guidelines and failure to address the issue directly has resulted in the widespread ignorance and confusion among SDA clergy and laity and the public that persists to this very day. It is time for Adventists to learn our history on the subject of abortion.”2

I am indebted to Gainer’s research and refer to his findings as I trace the history of abortion within Adventism.

Gainer documents that the early Adventists, including James and Ellen White, J. N. Andrews, and Dr. John H. Kellogg, opposed abortion. This pro-life position reflected the prevailing attitude in the medical community in general after the discovery, in 1827, of the human ovum. Although scientists had understood that mammals’ procreation involved some sort of female egg and male sperm, the mechanism and structures of human conception were not known.3 This discovery resulted in scientists realizing that “a distinct human life was created through the fertilization of the ovum with a sperm.”4 As a result of this realization, the first right-to-life movement in the United States, led by Dr. Horatio Robinson Storer, formed under the name “The Physician’s Crusade Against Abortion” during the years 1850 to 1890. The founding Adventists supported this popular position which, significantly, opposed the common practice of abortion prior to the stunning discovery of the ovum in the 1820s.
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: newbie on August 19, 2017, 07:10:48 PM
seems we are all in agreement on this issue...let's pray that this will happen
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Larry Lyons on August 19, 2017, 08:32:40 PM
Unfortunately it was Neil Wilson who said that SDA hospitals needed to do abortions to stay competitive in the market place.
It would be great if Ted reversed his father's position on this.
A former GC high level employee who knew Neil Wilson wrote that Neil Wilson had a very inflated opinion of his own judgment and administrative abilities.
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Listen on August 19, 2017, 11:32:10 PM
https://www.scribd.com/document/160731861/The-Wisdom-of-Solomon-or-The-Politics-of-Pragmatism-The-General-Conference-Abortion-Decision-1970-71

This is the actual document by George B. Gainer
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: restoretruth on August 20, 2017, 08:00:12 AM
https://www.scribd.com/document/160731861/The-Wisdom-of-Solomon-or-The-Politics-of-Pragmatism-The-General-Conference-Abortion-Decision-1970-71

This is the actual document by George B. Gainer

or < https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1991/08/abortion-history-of-adventist-guidelines (https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1991/08/abortion-history-of-adventist-guidelines) >
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: restoretruth on August 20, 2017, 09:26:42 AM
Some on this forum have referred to an article in "Proclamation Magazine" about abortion in Adventist hospitals. The writer of the article, Colleen Tinker, is a former Adventist & the editor of Proclamation Magazine (a publication of Life Assurance Ministries founded by Dale Ratzlaff a former SDA Academy Bible Teacher). In the articles conclusion are these inaccurate statements by Colleen Tinker:
Quote
(Emphasis supplied)
The hidden history and practice of abortion within the Adventist organization is the fruit of a religion that believes and teaches a false view of humanity on one hand while offering medical care on the other to some of the most vulnerable members of society: women with unwanted pregnancies. Because they believe human fetuses are unviable forms of life until they can survive outside the womb, many Adventist doctors offer their patients the option of abortions as a “compassionate” way to resolve their dilemmas. Other Adventist doctors, soothed by the idea that fetuses are not truly people, capitalize on the perpetual problem of unwanted pregnancies as a way to make the money that desperate women are willing to pay....
I have completely turned away from my early belief about the unborn. From my early days of believing a fetus to be unviable potential, I have come to see each tiny life as a person known and planned by God. Abortion is untenable as I realize that each new conception is a life with its own spirit that is its unique identity, and God knew us before we ever took a breath..
..

As the editor of Proclamation Magazine, she compares Adventism with "Historic Christian Faith". She writes about death
Quote
(Emphasis supplied)

DEATH
Adventism
Like the incarnate Christ, humans have no immaterial spirit, so at death the body goes into the ground and the breath goes to God. Nothing remains except in God’s memory. At judgment the lake of fire annihilates the wicked. The resurrection is essentially a re-creation of the person out of God’s memory.

Christianity
The immaterial spirit of believers goes to be with Jesus. Both saved and lost people will be resurrected. Those who are saved will live with Jesus in Heaven. Those who are lost will suffer the torment of eternal separation from God (hell). Jesus’ resurrection is the promise that believers will receive glorified, resurrection bodies

I find it easier to see the facts presented by someone who is not against SDA's! You can read Nic Samojluk's synopsis of abortion in Adventism @
https://adventlife.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/the-long-journey-towards-the-eradication-of-abortion-in-adventism-by-nic-samojluk/

The document by George B. Gainer @ https://www.scribd.com/document/160731861/The-Wisdom-of-Solomon-or-The-Politics-of-Pragmatism-The-General-Conference-Abortion-Decision-1970-71
or @ < https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1991/08/abortion-history-of-adventist-guidelines  (https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1991/08/abortion-history-of-adventist-guidelines)>
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Larry Lyons on August 20, 2017, 04:19:21 PM
Restoretruth; several years ago Nic Samojluk was a member on this forum. We haven't heard from him in a long time. He has been a faithful anti abortion warrior for decades. He even went back to school and got a PhD to make it more likely that Adventist Journals would accept his articles. Perhaps he will return if he notices our discussion.
Larry.
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Listen on August 20, 2017, 08:50:44 PM
Larry, Thank you for editing that link out of my comment.  !!!!! 
Title: Re: Petition to end abortions in SDA hospitals
Post by: Raven on August 21, 2017, 02:29:21 AM
Some on this forum have referred to an article in "Proclamation Magazine" about abortion in Adventist hospitals. The writer of the article, Colleen Tinker, is a former Adventist & the editor of Proclamation Magazine (a publication of Life Assurance Ministries founded by Dale Ratzlaff a former SDA Academy Bible Teacher). In the articles conclusion are these inaccurate statements by Colleen Tinker:


Much of what is written "Proclamation" must be taken with a HUGE grain of salt.  They despise the SDA Church and routinely distort our beliefs to serve their own ends. Their main  goal seems to be to talk members into leaving the church.  Most of them seem to be disgruntled former members.  Their experiences with the church bear no resemblance to anything I've ever experienced.  And I've never met anyone who has had such an experience.

I've never met Colleen Tinker, but her husband is a distant cousin of mine.  She seems to have a lot of  animosity toward the church.  Thanks to them, the name "Tinker" has been dragged through the mud.  This has been most difficult for his parents.