Revival Sermons

Theology => Justification => Topic started by: Hounddog on January 04, 2016, 04:42:50 PM

Title: Were any angels saved at Calvary?
Post by: Hounddog on January 04, 2016, 04:42:50 PM
Read thru the first chapter of Patriarchs and Prophets and some questions again came up that I have pondered before. In the rebellion in Heaven, it seems that the rebellion was in progress for a very long time, as when you have eternity in both directions you don't need to be in a hurry about anything. And Satan seems to have been well developed in his rebellion along with those he thoroughly deceived into joining his rebellion. However, many were borderline it seems, and he was ready with another deception that said, "you are too deep in this to turn back now." (Ever notice how often this gets said on TV crime shows! Some things on TV were written before the world was made!) So, some angels who didn't want to continue in the rebellion did so anyway because they had lost their trust in God and the pleadings of the other angels. But I sometimes wonder if any had gone so far in their rebellion before turning back that they had sinned and also were saved by Calvary also. It seems that Satan had gone a long way down the path to rebellion and still was offered his original job back. This is just one of those things that go bangin' around in my head!

This seems to fit best in the justification forum!
Title: Re: Were any angels saved at Calvary?
Post by: newbie on January 04, 2016, 04:56:29 PM
We have to remember that sin originated in Lucifer's heart...and that he had the privilege of being in heaven where everything was soooo wonderful...  when he repented it was not with love in his heart for God but that he wanted back in heaven and was sorry he got caught.  There was a court hearing in heaven before he was tossed out.
We are told in SOP that when Jesus was introduced as being equal with the Father, the seeds of rebellion were taking root in Lucifer's heart/mind at that time... and when he was left out of the meeting where plans were being made to make man, his rebellion and sin were manifest... then, he started to entice the other angels to rebel with him and was successful to convince 1/3 to side with him...  he lied and said that he had half of them but it was only 1/3...  because they too were in heaven where everything was so wonderful and they chose to follow Satan rather than God, their rebellion was sealed.  This is how I understand it and most of this comes from the story of redemption and the redemption series and spiritual gifts volume one.
Title: Re: Were any angels saved at Calvary?
Post by: Hounddog on January 04, 2016, 11:12:05 PM
We have to remember that sin originated in Lucifer's heart...

As I read the story in Patriarchs and Prophets, it seems that Lucifer was quite well advanced in his rebellion when he was still being offered restoration. And it seems that some of the angels were having difficulty understanding things, even the ones who remained loyal to God, and likely unawares sinned and then turned back from the rebellion. While it is something that can only be fully known in the kingdom, it seems that motives and intent are something we get judged for and why not the angels? And if any of the restored angels had broken the law of God, isn't God big enough to include them in the sacrifice at Calvary? And for any angels who successfully turned back from the rebellion, how wonderful was that?!

FWIW, I would hate to be in Satan's shoes during that thousand years of being in the bottomless pit contemplating his whole rebellion and with nothing to do but face it and also have the recriminations of other fallen angels also contemplating their reward after being deceived when they could have/wanted to have gone back to God and been restored, but were deceived into believing they could not.
Title: Re: Were any angels saved at Calvary?
Post by: newbie on January 06, 2016, 05:54:37 PM
good points
Title: Re: Were any angels saved at Calvary?
Post by: Ed Sutton on January 29, 2016, 07:15:22 AM
read {DD 2.3}{3MR 87.3}{TA 41.1- 45.4}  limited by 5K 

By the start of the war in Heaven all the combatants were settled, all the sinning angels had left their first habitation ( in Christ ) and now abode in Satan, and all angels on both sides, were each judged by God's angelic I-J and everyone was found loyal or traitor, then the war began. It was an attempted coup de ta  (military takeover) Calvary answered everyone's questions, uprooted all sympathy for Lucifer, recolored all memories of Lucifer in righteous angelic minds and all upon the unfallen worlds.
Title: Re: Were any angels saved at Calvary?
Post by: Ed Sutton on February 20, 2016, 07:05:44 AM
Which camp of angels entered into this because of calvary ?  Did God's seal dwell within them because of Calvary, or was it firmer within their minds because of Gethsemane, the series of unlawful trials, Calvary ?

 http://salvationathreesidedcoin.blogspot.com    (http://salvationathreesidedcoin.blogspot.com)
Title: Re: Were any angels saved at Calvary?
Post by: dedication on May 24, 2016, 12:07:47 AM
Were any angels saved at Calvary?

A question that has been asked and pondered over the years.

As I understand this, the angels had no concept of sin when Lucifer started his rebellion, as they had never experienced it.  They didn't understand what was happening at first.   Thus we see God informing them.  First Lucifer was jealous of Christ, somehow thinking he was on the same level as Christ and should be entitled to equal (or greater) position.  So God called them all together and showed them that Christ was Divine equally on the throne with the Father, whereas the angels were created beings.    This exaltation was not lifting Christ to a higher position, this was His position all along, but the demonstration was needed to clarify things since Lucifer had confused the things.
At that point -- as they all knelt in honor before Christ and the Father, I think they could have all put aside their confused thoughts and continued in peace and harmony.
BUT Lucifer, instead of accepting that he was created while Christ was God, one with God, chose to rebel against God, determining to set himself above God (as Isaiah 14 tells us)
Once he made up his mind to rebel there was no point of return.  He knew Who God was, he knew what holiness and harmony and love was -- yet he chose to rebel.

The rest of the angels were still in a bit of confusion.   It's interesting in 1SP page 20, EGW writes that God allowed the war  (He could have simply blown Lucifer and his angels out of heaven without a war) but God allowed the war so every angel would openly show which side they were on.
Before the war,  other than the more vocal on one side or the other, it was not that evident what side each angel had chosen to be on.   But when Lucifer called for them to fight, it was clear who responded to his call to fight against God Himself!

1SP page 22 states that nearly half were sympathizing with Lucifer earlier on --  since a smaller number 1/3 of the angels ended up siding with Lucifer  when it came to actual rebellion and war against God, there must have been many (1/6  of those who earlier sympathized with Lucifer) that sided with loyal angels.

There was also great sorrow when those rebellious angels were cast out.   

So yes, the cross was necessary even for the angels.

As pointed out in earlier posts -- it was the cross that removed the last lingering questions from the minds of heavenly angels.    For them the issue is settled completely.

Now the question is only for us earthlings, do we still see value in the supposed freedom of self in defiance to God's laws which Satan tries to sell us?

That's the real issue in the "sin problem" -- the rebellious heart.
A rebellious person cannot enter heaven.
Where is the heart -- Who has our love and allegiance?

Once the angel's engaged in the war of rebellion they had  learned the lesson of genuine rebellion against the unchangeable law of God; and were incurable.


The last battle, after the 1000 years, will be another actual attempt to overthrow God's throne.   One of the reasons why the lost are raised after the 1000 years is to again show beyond a shadow of a doubt what side they have chose, for they will all march on the city under their commander, Satan,  with the intent to conquer it, pull God from the throne, and take the city for themselves.         
Title: Re: Were any angels saved at Calvary?
Post by: Ed Sutton on December 02, 2016, 05:39:08 AM
The two camps got deeper rooted in their masters, in the positions they choose before the war in Heaven. 

Quote
     After Satan and those who fell with him were shut out of heaven, and he realized that he had forever lost all its purity and glory, he repented, and wished to be reinstated in heaven. He was willing to take his proper place, or any position that might be assigned him. But no; heaven must not be placed in jeopardy. All heaven might be marred should he be taken back; for sin originated with him, and the seeds of rebellion were within him. Both he and his followers wept, and implored to be taken back into the favor of God. But their sin--their hatred, their envy and jealousy--had been so great that God could not blot it out. It must remain to receive its final punishment. {EW 146.1} 

    When Satan became fully conscious that there was no possibility of his being brought again into favor with God, his malice and hatred began to be manifest. He consulted with his angels, and a plan was laid to still work against God's government. When Adam and Eve were placed in the beautiful garden, Satan was laying plans to destroy them. In no way could this happy couple be deprived of their happiness if they obeyed God. Satan could not exercise his power upon them unless they should first disobey God and forfeit His favor. Some plan must therefore be devised to lead them to disobedience that they might incur God's frown and be brought under the more direct influence of Satan and his angels. It was decided that Satan should assume another form and manifest an interest for man. He must insinuate against God's truthfulness and create doubt whether God did mean just what He said; next, he must excite their curiosity, and lead them to pry into the unsearchable plans of God-- the very sin of which Satan had been guilty--and reason as to the cause of His restrictions in regard to the tree of knowledge. {EW 146.2}   


Quote
        Satan trembled as he viewed his work. He was alone in meditation upon the past, the present, and his future plans. His mighty frame shook as with a tempest. An angel from Heaven was passing. He called him, and entreated an interview with Christ. This was granted him. He then related to the Son of God that he repented of his rebellion, and wished again the favor of God. He was willing to take the place God had previously assigned him, and be under his wise command. Christ wept at Satan's woe, but told him, as the mind of God, that he could never be received into Heaven. Heaven must not be placed in jeopardy. All Heaven would be marred should he be received back; for sin and rebellion originated with him. The seeds of rebellion were still within him. He had, in his rebellion, no occasion for his course, and he had not only hopelessly ruined himself, but the host of angels also, who would then have been happy in Heaven had he remained steadfast. The law of God could condemn, but could not pardon.  {1SP 29.2} 

    He repented not of his rebellion because he saw the goodness of God which he had abused. It was not possible that his love for God had so increased since his fall that it would lead to cheerful submission and happy obedience to his law which had been despised. The wretchedness he realized in losing the sweet light of Heaven, and the sense of guilt which forced itself upon him, and the disappointment he experienced himself in not finding his expectations realized, were the cause of his grief. To be commander out of Heaven, was vastly different from being thus honored in Heaven. The loss he had sustained of all the privileges of Heaven seemed too much to be borne. He wished to regain these. {1SP 30.1} 

     This great change of position had not increased his love for God, nor for his wise and just law. When Satan became fully convinced that there was no possibility of his being re-instated in the favor of God, he manifested his malice with increased hatred and fiery vehemence.  {1SP 30.2}   


Quote
  Not only man but angels will ascribe honor and glory to the Redeemer, for even they are secure only through the sufferings of the Son of God. It is through the efficacy of the cross that the inhabitants of unfallen worlds have been guarded from apostasy. It is this that has effectually unveiled the deceptions of Satan and refuted his claims. Not only those that are washed by the blood of Christ, but also the holy angels, are drawn to him by his crowning act of giving his life for the sins of the world. God's dealing with the rebellion of Satan is justified before the universe. ......{BTS, December 1, 1907 par. 4}