Revival Sermons

Other Forums => What Would Be Your Counsel? => Topic started by: ColporteurK on February 03, 2015, 05:36:58 PM

Title: What would you do ?
Post by: ColporteurK on February 03, 2015, 05:36:58 PM
  We have non members taking up the offering,and standing behind the pulpit  giving mission story, and giving Scripture, and other times calling for the offering and now having children's story. The ladies ( one of them) wears jeans. The other spiked hair, and both with make up, lipstick, painted nails, necklaces, diamond rings and earrings.
The ladies are in their mid thirties and have been married to life long SDAs for about 10 years. Other than becoming more active in roles up front there is no indication that there is any change. The one mother has her 9  year old daughter in earrings. Sometimes they and their husbands are in charge of music and they play music from  contemporary  Christian radio.

The thinking is that if the ladies feel accepted by having roles up front they might come around. The husbands (church members) often share inappropriate material up front so what their wives present may be no worse. It's just the message that it sends that non members that have knowledge of the truth but reject it, lead out upfront.
 So far we have said little because we say so much about a;ll  the other things going on. We could and probably should say something  and if it continues simply not come when the unbeliever has a role up front. That would be about 30-40% of the time. I am much respected and considered high standards but probably considered the problem finder even though that is not verbalized. My wife is a children's teacher and bulletin maker. Our children have the music every other Sabbath and my pre teen daughter has adult Sabbath school superintendent 1-2 times per quarter. I teach adult Sabbath school and preach once in a while although since my sermons are not fluffy and direct I am not asked to preach much. We could leave before sermon time when the ladies are to be up front but to drive 170 miles round trip to church and leave mid way through seems like a waste.
   What would you say ?  What would you do ?
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: Tammy on February 03, 2015, 07:29:19 PM
Wonder why they don't join the church.
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: newbie on February 03, 2015, 08:23:41 PM
so much is going on in the church now ... 

the straight path is not popular anymore...

it's hard to get people to accept responsibility and those that are willing may not always be the best examples...

deep inside our hearts we must stay true... needle to the pole ...no matter what goes on around us...

I think we might see some dramatic things happen this year.  Many are being laid to the grave last year and this year now too....  makes me think that God is putting them to rest to save them from what is coming.  For the rest of us?  Satan is on the prowl more than ever and is really attacking and tempting...we must pray continually...

God bless all
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: Tammy on February 04, 2015, 11:45:34 AM
Newbie, guess neither of us really answered his questions.
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: ColporteurK on February 04, 2015, 01:06:41 PM
Wonder why they don't join the church.

They are not willing to surrender the jewelry, rock music, etc.etc.etc.. This way there are no restrictions.
Why join the church when you can have the cow for free. They have alot of $$$ from farming and livestock etc..
When they have such a low view on standards  and obedience as they observe their SDA family compromising and when they are as much accepted in the church now as if they were  members; when one thinks " I'm a good person  and I can have the world and be saved, why change anything ? The fallacy is to think one can have both worlds.
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: Tammy on February 04, 2015, 03:17:40 PM
They are not willing to surrender the jewelry, rock music, etc.etc.etc..

I don't think they would be required to surrender any of the things you mentioned.  You see most all of what you mentioned on many current members (or at least around here).
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: ColporteurK on February 04, 2015, 03:52:22 PM

 Tammy;

 Are  you suggesting we baptize people with the full gamut of jewelry ,make up, and punk hair styles etc. ?
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: Tammy on February 04, 2015, 05:53:37 PM
  Are  you suggesting we baptize people with the full gamut of jewelry ,make up, and punk hair styles etc. ?

No, that was not in my thoughts at all; I was commenting on what the women were supposedly thinking.  I was just saying that the women didn't need to be concerned about being asked to give up anything, because if they asked to become members, I imagine most pastors would oblige them.

I can't imagine any pastor talking to them about any of the things you mentioned.  Otherwise, wouldn't they have to take a lot of names off the books of all the members who drink coffee now days?

CP, I'm old-fashioned and don't like what I see going on any more than you do.  But if you stay home or leave church when they are up front, you would definitely be making a statement, but who would really care?  Can you see that any changes would be made because you did?

Jesus went to church with lots of people who he knew were wicked at heart, but not sure if that thought applies here.
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: ColporteurK on February 05, 2015, 08:03:48 AM
 While our current stand in pastor would probably baptize them under any circumstances, depending on the circumstances some of us would protest  and under the the current circumstances I would protest greatly.

If leadership or the acting pastor said, " how can we deny them membership when the inlaws wear diamond rings?"
My reply would be something to the effect, " I'm glad you brought that up. I agree, we need to be consistent.  We need to deal with the inlaws as well. Now is as  good a time as any.This is a matter of being faithful."

While I'm certain the response would be a bunch of "well, we need to love people like Jesus did" kind of stuff, even so the truth would be spoken. It is not our duty to enforce the truth and things happen when others are unwilling, but to speak truth and do what we can, where we can.
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: GraceVessel on February 06, 2015, 06:58:21 PM
What response are you looking for?

Are you looking for suggestions on the best way to condemn them in a non-condemnatory fashion?

Tammy responding from a woman's viewpoint.  Is this your issue or their issue? and what is the issue.  Is their behavior in line with your expectations within a church setting?   -- "While I'm certain the response would be a bunch of "well, we need to love people like Jesus did" kind of stuff, even so the truth would be spoken"

Are you looking for advice on where to speak the truth to them?

Is the church service the proper environment? Potluck?  Are there any social events where you can talk with them in a more relaxed setting?

Your statement ---  "I am much respected and considered high standards but probably considered the problem finder even though that is not verbalized."

If these sinners in your midst actually respect you, maybe finding the least offensive timing to share your concerns with them would be advisable.

Given your very developed social skills as a Colporteur, this should fall into one of your strengths in communication.

with kind regards,

Gracevessel
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: Ed Sutton on February 06, 2015, 11:10:46 PM
If they respect CP and have confidence in him, he will be in position where they will listen for awhile.  But if the thorns, stony path, hold their attention too long they will forget.

He could say to them,....... "you know I work to save souls and I speak plain truths in love so that people will come to Christ, fully surrender to Christ, and grow up in Christ."

Ephesians 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

"You know that I say those things so that sin does not grab their attention so long that they loose their love for truth the truths the Bible says."

2 Thessalonians 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

"You know I talk to people so that they can have clean hearts and clean lives so that Jesus is proud of them when He returns, and not ashamed."

1 Peter 1:22  Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

"Unseen .... Jesus through the Holy Ghost always sits in one of the pews of every Church and visits every home and walks through every workplace." 

"There was a little girl that a dentist sang about - “I wish”....  Lets watch his youtube....... then ..........   if I have your permission...........if I may I will want to ask a question."     http://youtu.be/YmU2RpRB8J0 (http://youtu.be/YmU2RpRB8J0)

After the video - CP might ask ...............    Calling the name of the person he is talking to.....

"--------------- " "knowing that as holy and pure as God is" ........    “How soon should Jesus Himself visibly come in Person ?”

CP might do something like that ...... maybe ....... one never knows.   
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: ColporteurK on February 08, 2015, 09:02:05 AM
 The lady that gave the children's story gave out valentines. Then she said that "Jesus' love is much better than a valentine accept for  the candy." She ended by giving the children each candy. I was on my knees praying.

Then a church mother, children's Sabbath school teacher, who is 50 years old, was up front wearing a mini  skirt, diamond ring and make up. It was apparent that the  back ground music was going to get bumpy when the sound system failed so they had to sing without it. Answer to prayer.

The acting pastor added during the announcements an invitation to a "really good program, the One Project." Then his whole sermon was about centering down on God and saying no to many good things in order to follow THE ONE THING. The whole sermon was geared to Spiritual Formation although no one knew it but my wife and I.
The head superintendent, the husband of the 50 year old school teacher, approached me before the sermon and asked me if the Mark of the Beast was  literal. It turned out that at a Bible study last week where a Catholic couple attended, the pastor said that The two beasts in Revelation 13 are not  the Papacy and the USA and the Mark of the Beast is other than the NSL. There was a debate between the pastor, and the head elder and superintendent.
     After the worship service I approached the pastor about Spiritual Formation. He said that SF has gotten a bad rap. Then said that not all of what the papacy, Ignatious Loyola , said was error. I asked him if the Mark of the beast was the NSL. He said that that does not line up as well as SDAs think and that it may or may not be part of  the Mark. When I said that SOP states emphatically that the NSL is the mark he replied, " well, I believe that EGW was an inspired prophet but she spoke for her time."  Implication, " what she said is obsolete." Now one of the church leadership asked that I contact the conference with a complaint.

This is not going to happen for  the following reasons.

#1 The conference president brought this pastor in. The president is an arrogant, dictator and I have tried to work with him. He has lied to the church and to me.

#2 I asked a hard question during the pastor's interview that revealed where the pastor was at and the local church leadership ignored his answers and accepted the pastor because they bowed to the conference. One such question was " what kind of music would you consider inappropriate in church ?"  his reply, " none."  I continued " NO music is unacceptable in church?"  His reply " none, as long as the people wanted it."

He was asked, " what is your vision for this church?' Reply, " I don't have one. Pastors come and pastors go."

#3 The head elder, who is now seeing that the pastor  is in total deception would not listen to myself when the new pastor was being interviewed because he  tends to blind his eyes to qualifications regarding positions and functions in the church. When the previous pastor and I recommended that he not attend the ecumenical cult "Walk to Emmaus"  event he went any way as he thinks he  is able to engage with them and not be affected. Now he allows non members to perform duties that continue to set a low standard and mislead. The only reason he is concerned now is that the pastor thing is getting out of control. And this is only regarding his false doctrines on prophecy. Just as big of a problem is his Spiritual Formation sermons/thrust and these go right over the head of leadership because they are entirely uninformed and in fact wrapped up in the ecumenical movement themselves. When I try to explain the SF and ecumenical movement to them they do not get it because of a  skewed view of what Jesus meant when Jesus said that we are to"mingle" with the people.

At least this thing with the pastor seems to be coming to a head rather quickly. The greatest concern among  local leadership now is what will the pastor say when he follows up with the Bible worker's interests as the Bible worker is leaving this summer. If the pastor is willing to debate clear prophecy in the presence of our leadership and in front of non SDA interests what will he say when no one is with him to temper his statements ? Perhaps the local leadership will learn something from this. #1 is to ask some hard questions and then do not ignore the answers when it comes to interviewing new pastors.



Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: ColporteurK on February 08, 2015, 09:15:41 AM
Conclusion:

However, they still have all the standard issues and non SDAs performing SDA duties. I understand that these ladies are now being taken through the baptismal vows. It would appear that they  may be baptized and they are still wearing a full load of jewelry, punk hair, etc.etc.. These ladies could easily argue, "mother in law wears a mini skirt, make up, and a diamond and she is a church member." Here in lies part of the problem. When sin lies at the door with life long members and it will not be dealt with it is exceedingly difficult to tell any prospective new member that they must change something in order to be baptized. Probably what is going to happen is the ladies will unload the jewelry on baptismal day and put it back on all other times. There again, we have the same problem. Ignore the clear signals and indicators for the sake of peace, harmony, and what appears to be some short term advantage.

Satan has been constantly nibbling away all along because the church is negligent and compromising.  The only thing with the pastor is that the devil in his zeal took a little too big a bite this time. Another way to put it is that he turned the heat up on the water pot a little too quickly. It is going to be interesting to see what happens here. In a sense he wins no matter what happens. Every day that his deceptions are tolerated is another day that souls are affected in and outside the church, another day that souls are not reached with the gospel message.
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: Ed Sutton on February 08, 2015, 04:18:04 PM
Will any of this help ? Will the baptismal candidates care ?
Once entered in the Lamb's Book of Life - The I-J applies .

  http://whyajudgment.blogspot.com/  (http://whyajudgment.blogspot.com/)

  http://foolishorwisegodsees.blogspot.com/   (http://foolishorwisegodsees.blogspot.com/)

  http://salvationathreesidedcoin.blogspot.com/   (http://salvationathreesidedcoin.blogspot.com/)

(misrepresenting    name   = 19 SOP hits )
Quote
    ... "it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." And He added, "If thy hand cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life maimed, rather than having thy two hands to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire. And if thy foot cause thee to stumble, cut it off: it is good for thee to enter into life halt, rather than having thy two feet to be cast into hell." Mark 9:43-45, R. V.  {DA 438.2} 

     Why this earnest language, than which none can be stronger? Because "the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." Shall His disciples show less regard for the souls of their fellow men than the Majesty of heaven has shown? Every soul has cost an infinite price, and how terrible is the sin of turning one soul away from Christ, so that for him the Saviour's love and humiliation and agony shall have been in vain.  {DA 438.3}
 
     "Woe unto the world because of occasions of stumbling! for it must needs be that the occasions come." Matthew 18:7, R. V. The world, inspired by Satan, will surely oppose the followers of Christ, and seek to destroy their faith; but woe to him who has taken Christ's name, and yet is found doing this work. Our Lord is put to shame by those who claim to serve Him, but who misrepresent His character; and multitudes are deceived, and led into false paths.  {DA 438.4} 

     Any habit or practice that would lead into sin, and bring dishonor upon Christ, would better be put away, whatever the sacrifice. That which dishonors God cannot benefit the soul. The blessing of heaven cannot attend any man in violating the eternal principles of right. And one sin cherished is sufficient to work the degradation of the character, and to mislead others. If the foot or the hand would be cut off, or even the eye would be plucked out, to save the body from death, how much more earnest should we be to put away sin, that brings death to the soul!  {DA 439.1} 

     In the ritual service, salt was added to every sacrifice. ..... But if the salt has lost its savor; if there is only a profession of godliness, without the love of Christ, there is no power for good. The life can exert no saving influence upon the world. Your energy and efficiency in the upbuilding of My kingdom, Jesus says, depend upon your receiving of My Spirit. You must be partakers of My grace, in order to be a savor of life unto life. Then there will be no rivalry, no self-seeking, no desire for the highest place. You will have that love which seeks not her own, but another's wealth.  {DA 439.2}   

Quote
   God will hold the church at ----- responsible, as a body, for the wrong course of its members...... the Lord holds the church accountable for the sin of its members until they have done all they can to remedy the existing evil. He will not hearken to the prayer of His people while the orphan, the fatherless, the lame, the blind, and the sick are neglected among them.  {3T 517.2} 
      .........

.........All are doubtless familiar with Achan's case. It is recorded in sacred history for all generations, but more especially for those upon whom the ends of the world are come. Joshua lay moaning upon his face before God because the people were obliged to make a disgraceful retreat before their enemies. The Lord bade Joshua arise: "Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face?" Have I humbled without cause by removing My presence from thee? Does God forsake His people without a cause? No; He tells Joshua that there is a work for him to do before his prayer can be answered. "Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed My covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also." He declares: "Neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you."  {3T 520.1} 
     Here in this example we have some idea of the responsibility resting upon the church and the work that God requires them to do in order to have His presence. It is a sin in any church not to search for the cause of their darkness and of the afflictions which have been in the midst of them. The church in ----- cannot be a living, prosperous church until they are more awake to the wrongs among them, which hinder the blessing of God from coming upon them. .......{3T 520.2}

 

Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: newbie on February 08, 2015, 08:34:11 PM
I'm really sad to hear these things are going on in the church Cp.  It seems that your conference president agrees with all of this and has put this man in position knowing he will push this agenda. 

It's all very wrong.  Things are changing fast and right before our eyes...  at some point I think conservative/like believers will be forced out and will be in the homes.  God will somehow bring us together so we can worship in the way that God would smell in their assemblies.

by the way, is ADRA supporting the 1 project?

https://the1project.org/about/partners
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: restoretruth on February 09, 2015, 12:23:32 AM
...
by the way, is ADRA supporting the 1 project?

https://the1project.org/about/partners

YES! And so are a lot of others! This is serious. It looks like TOP is signing up different layers of sponsors who are supporting them by funds & sending people to their meetings & events.  The two churches within the Church continue on divergent paths!
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: Ed Sutton on February 09, 2015, 06:39:40 AM
The Bible has a verse to answer that.

Exodus 23:2  Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil; neither shalt thou speak in a cause to decline after many to wrest judgment:

At it's very least, the one project by it's design and function, wrests a person's judgment.
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: ColporteurK on February 09, 2015, 08:58:37 AM
I for one will respond to the next ADRA solicitation for funds  that "do to ADRA's support of the 1 Project I will not be sending  any more funds and please  discontinue sending solicitation to  me until support for the 1 Project is dropped."

This is the kind of language that gets their attention,..... if anything does.
Title: Re: What would you do ?
Post by: newbie on February 10, 2015, 10:50:23 AM
I for one will respond to the next ADRA solicitation for funds  that "do to ADRA's support of the 1 Project I will not be sending  any more funds and please  discontinue sending solicitation to  me until support for the 1 Project is dropped."

This is the kind of language that gets their attention,..... if anything does.

I am surprised at how many have supported and contributed to this project...  clearly, we are in big trouble.