Revival Sermons

Lifestyle & Contemporary Issues => Christian Standards => Topic started by: ColporteurK on January 17, 2015, 02:14:55 PM

Title: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: ColporteurK on January 17, 2015, 02:14:55 PM
 
Is anyone here familiar with the messages of Elder/ pastor Kevin Wilfley ?

He was invited to speak at the Dakota Conference Campmeeting  and his CDs were copied and given to each family  in our church. Wilfley quotes Morris Vendon twice and implies that we will always be sinning because sanctification is the work of a lifetime. He speaks 95% truth and 5% lethal error by implication.

He said  that he has never met a perfect person and "we all go out and do stupid things. It is temporary insanity."
That does not sound to me like a very victorious 144,000. Who is more capable Satan or Christ ?
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: restoretruth on January 18, 2015, 12:15:49 AM
He said  that he has never met a perfect person and "we all go out and do stupid things. It is temporary insanity."

Obedience Is Required, But It Is Only Possible Through Union With Christ!

There are many who will be lost, because they depend on legal religion, or mere repentance for sin. But repentance for sin alone cannot work the salvation of any soul. Man cannot be saved by his own works. Without Christ it is impossible for him to render perfect obedience to the law of God; and heaven can never be gained by an imperfect obedience; for this would place all heaven in jeopardy, and make possible a second rebellion. {ST, December 30, 1889 par. 4} 

God grants men a probation in this world, that their principles may become firmly established in the right, thus precluding the possibility of sin in the future life, and so assuring the happiness and security of all
. Through the atonement of the Son of God alone could power be given to man to establish him in righteousness, and make him a fit subject for heaven. The blood of Christ is the eternal antidote for sin. The offensive character of sin is seen in what it cost the Son of God in humiliation, in suffering and death. All the worlds behold in him a living testimony to the malignity of sin, for in his divine form he bears the marks of the curse. He is in the midst of the throne as a Lamb that hath been slain. The redeemed will ever be vividly impressed with the hateful character of sin, as they behold Him who died for their transgressions. The preciousness of the Offering will be more fully realized as the blood-washed throng more fully comprehend how God has made a new and living way for the salvation of men, through the union of the human and the divine in Christ.  {ST, December 30, 1889 par. 3} 

The death of Christ upon the cross made sure the destruction of him who has the power of death, who was the originator of sin. When Satan is destroyed, there will be none to tempt to evil; the atonement will never need to be repeated; and there will be no danger of another rebellion in the universe of God. That which alone can effectually restrain from sin in this world of darkness, will prevent sin in heaven. The significance of the death of Christ will be seen by saints and angels Fallen men could not have a home in the paradise of God without the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Shall we not then exalt the cross of Christ? The angels ascribe honor and glory to Christ, for even they are not secure except by looking to the sufferings of the Son of God. It is through the efficacy of the cross that the angels of heaven are guarded from apostasy. Without the cross they would be no more secure against evil than were the angels before the fall of Satan. Angelic perfection failed in heaven. Human perfection failed in Eden, the paradise of bliss. All who wish for security in earth or heaven must look to the Lamb of God. The plan of salvation, making manifest the justice and love of God, provides an eternal safeguard against defection in unfallen worlds, as well as among those who shall be redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. Our only hope is perfect trust in the blood of Him who can save to the uttermost all that come unto God by Him. The death of Christ on the cross of Calvary is our only hope in this world, and it will be our theme in the world to come. Oh, we do not comprehend the value of the atonement! If we did, we would talk more about it. The gift of God in his beloved Son was the expression of an incomprehensible love. It was the utmost that God could do to preserve the honor of his law, and still save the transgressor. Why should man not study the theme of redemption? It is the greatest subject that can engage the human mind. If men would contemplate the love of Christ, displayed in the cross, their faith would be strengthened to appropriate the merits of his shed blood, and they would be cleansed and saved from sin.{ST, December 30, 1889 par. 4}
   

Obedience is only possible by total, daily surrender to God & the indwelling of Christ in the heart. The work of sanctification is one of continual dependence on the power of Christ, which is received by prayer, the study & application of His Word & claiming His promises! Before the close of probation, God's faithful people will have put all sin out of their lives through the power of Christ! Those who have received the power of the Holy Spirit in the "Former Rain" will receive a special endowment of the Holy Spirit in the Latter Rain that will prepare them for the Sealing! Christians who die in Christ before this time will be judged by their continual progression in the process of sanctification or whether they have become careless or disobedient in their walk with Christ!

Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: Ed Sutton on January 18, 2015, 03:18:49 AM
Maybe we should let an older SDA Minister deal with the ideology of the younger SDA Minister ?

  http://www.dennispriebe.com/new/node/2  (http://www.dennispriebe.com/new/node/2)

  http://www.dennispriebe.com/new/node/4   (http://www.dennispriebe.com/new/node/4)

Then get out our Bibles and download the EGW app on our phones or use the EGW CD Rom Disk in our laptops and PC's, and look things up for ourselves .
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: ColporteurK on January 18, 2015, 08:42:04 AM
What you have said is true Restore the problem is that this man gives every indication that the faithful will sin until Christ comes. The " I've never met a perfect person" is giving impression that therefore everyone continues in sin and will continue in sin. Frankly that is a bit arrogant. The idea that a lifelong experience of sanctification means that one necessarily keeps sinning, is error. God's people will continue to grow throughout eternity. Does that mean that they will continue to sin in heaven ? Will the 144,000 continue to sin after probation closes because they are being polished in the sanctifying furnace of affliction? No !

He quotes the Bible verse "believe and be saved" as though that settles it but he isolates that from James 2:19 and other verses. Then he ignores  the Scripture that says Be ye therefore perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. Of course the come back to that is that "perfect" means "mature" and the implication is that one can be mature and sin. I believe the KJV translators used the word "perfect" instead of "mature" for a"reason." An ear of corn can be "mature" and have smut growing on it. There are contradictions in his message.

If Elder Wilfley would have included this verse in his message as well as the quote from Desire of Ages that says that Jesus did not yield to temptation even by a thought, so may it be with us, I would be easier on his message, but when he says we all go out and do stupid things, and are temporarily insane, that does not build confidence in his theology. Quoting Morris Vendon is like putting the last nail on the coffin as far as I'm concerned.

He does another thing which is common among those who promote optional sanctification. That is to use the fact that we are all sinners because we have sinned and give impression that we are all sinners because we still sin and will always sin until Jesus comes. Many necessarily confuse the difference. Then as a knee jerk way of excusing sin they ask " Are you perfect? Have you  stopped sinning ?"  That is like asking if you have stopped beating your wife yet?  What God says is the reality of it. How each one of us fits into that is a different matter.

   Whether or not a person is among the 144,000 and translated or not does not change the fact that God stated that there would be this group. To say " Well, I have never met anyone who is among the 144,000" is proof of nothing but one's own ignorance and rebellious attitude.

He fails to give the message for the last generation of people. It is a message that Martin Luther gave. It is a Holy Place Message. Not only is the Lord not in the Holy Place but soon He will not be in the Most Holy either. Giving people a message to keep them in a Holy Place experience is a losing proposition.
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: Ed Sutton on January 18, 2015, 10:04:24 AM
perfect* = 123 Bible Texts, each verse developing through use and contrast and it's statements > defining "perfect" more and more thoroughly, each adding more to the understanding.

God will give holy flesh perfection when He returns, He promises to do so.  It is before He leaves the most holy place, before the times of refreshing when He blots out sin, it is the before these times God yearns and works and travails to create the perfection in the human mind and heart that exists in the heart and mind of His humanity.

John 17:
1 ¶  These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2  As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4  I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5  And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 ¶  I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7  Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8  For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9  I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10  And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 ¶  And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13  And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14  I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15  I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16  They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 ¶  Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18  As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19  And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 ¶  Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21  That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22  And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23  I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 ¶  Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25  O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26  And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

This prayer, that is Christ's declaration of intent, and method of working it out, can not be improved upon, it is perfect.

There is nothing the Lord .........
 
     When we reflect Christ's image, we shall love one another as He has loved us. We shall not love as we love our neighbor, but as Christ loved us. It is an advance to love as Christ loved. This is the perfection of Christian character. When we can say, My will is wholly submerged in God's will, then peace and rest come in.  {7MR 389.1} 

     We must have that love, else we cannot be perfect before God. We may be active, we may do much work, but unless we love as Christ loved, our candlestick will be removed out of its place......... . . .  {7MR 389.2} 

     We have little enough of Christ's character. We need it all through our ranks, We must reveal that love which dwelt in Jesus. Then we shall keep the commandment [that we love one another], which not one in a hundred of those who claim to believe the truth for this time are keeping. . . .  {7MR 389.3} 

    ..... {7MR 388.5 - 389.4}  read  {DA 336.1 - .3}
 
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: restoretruth on January 18, 2015, 11:37:40 AM

Is anyone here familiar with the messages of Elder/ pastor Kevin Wilfley ?

He was invited to speak at the Dakota Conference Campmeeting  and his CDs were copied and given to each family  in our church. Wilfley quotes Morris Vendon twice and implies that we will always be sinning because sanctification is the work of a lifetime. He speaks 95% truth and 5% lethal error by implication.

He said  that he has never met a perfect person and "we all go out and do stupid things. It is temporary insanity."
That does not sound to me like a very victorious 144,000. Who is more capable Satan or Christ ?

Cp,
 In doing a little research on Pastor Wilfley, I came across a pdf document on the Holy Spirit, which he wrote in 2011. In browsing through it , i don't see him saying we can't overcome sin. Do you think he has changed his views? The link is < http://www.enumclawsda.org/uploads/1/3/3/9/13391741/studies.pdf (http://www.enumclawsda.org/uploads/1/3/3/9/13391741/studies.pdf) >. The article is Studies On The Holy Spirit.
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: ColporteurK on January 19, 2015, 09:15:30 AM
That's part of the point, he simply implies that sin is inevitable.  Certainly that is the message I listened to. 

 I don't know about whether or not he has changed his views. Perhaps. Many are shifting. Many are confused and contradict themselves. That is my guess here. If he has shifted theologically I would think he would delete those messages that contradict, unless of course he does not see the contradictions or  unless there has been a recent shift

Do you think saying "we all go out and do stupid things which is temporary insanity " sounds like language indicating entire victory over sin ?

I am not talking about Holy flesh.

It is what he implies by where he places truth and it is what he does not say that is troubling.

What if you said, " there are those who will no longer be committing sin and they be translated,"  and I replied " hey, the Bible says all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. We are all sinners."

What would you conclude by my reply ?  We all know that all have sinned. My reply  would be correct but as a response to your comment that would imply that all would continue in sin. I would be happy to send you the CD and you can listen for your self. One can present truth in such a setting as to imply error. This is what he does.

He also quotes Morris Vendon twice. This too means that he largely accepts what Vendon said. Why do I say that ? Because you do not quote someone that has false teachings even if what he says in on instance is true. The reason being you do not wish to lead others to their work. If the pope spoke truth in one sentence I would not quote him as a good source for truth.

On a lesser note I observe the birds of a feather flocking together. The conference president that invited him to speak is very worldly. When it is brought to his attention that he has pastors that look the other way when members are working at the pork plant on Sabbath his reply is " You can focus on sin all you want. I will focus on Jesus." This is his definition of "love."

Wilfly says some things in a very calm manner but that come across angry in terms of content,like his comparing many of our people with Catholics. He has some truth, a fair amount of truth; truth that I advocate such as both extreme right and extreme left are legalists however it is very subjective as to who fits into those categories. Then he says things that imply that since we are still being sanctified we are still necessarily  sinning. Never does he say that it is even possible, even through the power of Jesus working within, to separate from all sinful thoughts and deeds. With all of his message how difficult would it be to clarify and say that one time ? This subject is not THAT difficult accept when one is sending a mixed message.

Yes, love is the bottom line. The problem Restore is that Satan has hijacked that word just has he has done many other words. Many claim love that makes room for sin. Mrs. White refers to that as "lovism." There are practicing homosexuals that say they are manifesting biblical love. Many confuse "love" with presumption and acceptance of anything that does not directly offend them.

I don't know if Wilfly's sermon is on the net but the title is "Trusting Jesus For Eternal Life."

95% truth and 5% error is more dangerous than 100% error.

I browsed some of the link you posted. It is a major contradiction to the message I have listened to. Why that is, I don't know. But then there was some contradiction in the message I listened to.

I have yet to see someone quote Morris Vendon that takes the high road. I would be curious to know if he quotes Vendon in any of the link you posted or  if this is only a recent thing.

Do you think Morris Vendon's theology is correct ?

Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: restoretruth on January 19, 2015, 11:47:13 PM

Do you think Morris Vendon's theology is correct ?

From what you have said, it would appear that Wilfley does not see the importance in overcoming sin! If that is so, he is a false shepherd!

RE Venden: We know many SDA's who love Morris Venden. We have only read enough of his material to be troubled by his theology. When we read things that contradict the Bible & the SOP we don't feel the need to read more! We strongly feel the same way about Jack Sequeira & many others in our church who teach a false theology!

The following comment which I made in the first post on this subject along with the quoted SOP is what we believe. I really thought this comment might spark some interest for discussion. Perhaps it will yet!

Obedience is only possible by total, daily surrender to God & the indwelling of Christ in the heart. The work of sanctification is one of continual dependence on the power of Christ, which is received by prayer, the study & application of His Word & claiming His promises! Before the close of probation, God's faithful people will have put all sin out of their lives through the power of Christ! Only those who have received the power of the Holy Spirit in the "Former Rain" will receive a special endowment of the Holy Spirit in the Latter Rain that will prepare them for the Sealing! Christians who die in Christ before this time will be judged by their continual progression in the process of sanctification or whether they have become careless or disobedient in their walk with Christ!

Also, a follower of Christ will want to find a way to share Christ & His final warning message to the world, which includes RT. by Faith & abiding in Christ! We are called to give the Three Angels Messages to the world while demonstrating a sanctified holy life! That can only happen by the imputation of Christ's RT. as we totally surrender our will & life to the power of the Holy Spirit working within!

Questions:
Must we overcome sin before probation closes? 
If so, how is this done? 
Does God require more of "The Last Generation" than He does of those who die before the sealing & the close of probation?
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: ColporteurK on January 20, 2015, 07:26:01 AM

Obedience is only possible by total, daily surrender to God & the indwelling of Christ in the heart. The work of sanctification is one of continual dependence on the power of Christ, which is received by prayer, the study & application of His Word & claiming His promises! Before the close of probation, God's faithful people will have put all sin out of their lives through the power of Christ! Only those who have received the power of the Holy Spirit in the "Former Rain" will receive a special endowment of the Holy Spirit in the Latter Rain that will prepare them for the Sealing! Christians who die in Christ before this time will be judged by their continual progression in the process of sanctification or whether they have become careless or disobedient in their walk with Christ!

Also, a follower of Christ will want to find a way to share Christ & His final warning message to the world, which includes RT. by Faith & abiding in Christ! We are called to give the Three Angels Messages to the world while demonstrating a sanctified holy life! That can only happen by the imputation of Christ's RT. as we totally surrender our will & life to the power of the Holy Spirit working within!

Questions:
Must we overcome sin before probation closes? 
If so, how is this done? 
Does God require more of "The Last Generation" than He does of those who die before the sealing & the close of probation?


 Perhaps the reason your quote did not spark more discussion is because it pretty much says it all and we are in agreement.
I think your questions have already been answered in your post and quote.

#1 absolutely
#2 By the indwelling of the HS through constant surrendering of the will and the exercising of faith.
#3 Yes, in certain respects.
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: restoretruth on January 20, 2015, 01:49:10 PM

 Perhaps the reason your quote did not spark more discussion is because it pretty much says it all and we are in agreement.
I think your questions have already been answered in your post and quote.

#1 absolutely
#2 By the indwelling of the HS through constant surrendering of the will and the exercising of faith.
#3 Yes, in certain respects.

Sin is not a popular subject & it is one that divides the church, as well as people on this forum! I had thought this particular statement might spark some discussion as to it's validity:

Only those who have received the power of the Holy Spirit in the "Former Rain" will receive a special endowment of the Holy Spirit in the Latter Rain that will prepare them for the Sealing! 

I had believed the purpose of the Latter Rain was for proclaiming God's last message to a lost world & that those who were to give it were pretty much sealed already. I had always heard that the Latter Rain was not to be given for the purpose of overcoming sin! I didn't realize that it's purpose was also to give a special endowment of the Holy Spirit to perfect God's people who had prepared their hearts to receive it during the former rain!  From my study now, I see it as the continual unfolding of the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit & results in the final perfecting & sealing of God's faithful people! This is how it is possible to overcome all sin!

As the dew and the rain are given first to cause the seed to germinate, and then to ripen the harvest, so the Holy Spirit is given to carry forward, from one stage to another, the process of spiritual growth. The ripening of the grain represents the completion of the work of God's grace in the soul. By the power of the Holy Spirit the moral image of God is to be perfected in the character. We are to be wholly transformed into the likeness of Christ.  {TM 506.1}

 The latter rain, ripening earth's harvest, represents the spiritual grace that prepares the church for the coming of the Son of man. But unless the former rain has fallen, there will be no life; the green blade will not spring up. Unless the early showers have done their work, the latter rain can bring no seed to perfection.  {TM 506.2} 

...There must be a constant development of Christian virtue, a constant advancement in Christian experience. This we should seek with intensity of desire, that we may adorn the doctrine of Christ our Saviour.  {TM 506.3} 

  Many have in a great measure failed to receive the former rain. They have not obtained all the benefits that God has thus provided for them. They expect that the lack will be supplied by the latter rain. When the richest abundance of grace shall be bestowed, they intend to open their hearts to receive it. They are making a terrible mistake. The work that God has begun in the human heart in giving His light and knowledge must be continually going forward. Every individual must realize his own necessity. The heart must be emptied of every defilement and cleansed for the indwelling of the Spirit. It was by the confession and forsaking of sin, by earnest prayer and consecration of themselves to God, that the early disciples prepared for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost. The same work, only in greater degree, must be done now. Then the human agent had only to ask for the blessing, and wait for the Lord to perfect the work concerning him. It is God who began the work, and He will finish His work, making man complete in Jesus Christ. But there must be no neglect of the grace represented by the former rain. Only those who are living up to the light they have will receive greater light. Unless we are daily advancing in the exemplification of the active Christian virtues, we shall not recognize the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain. It may be falling on hearts all around us, but we shall not discern or receive it.  {TM 507.1}  
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: ColporteurK on January 20, 2015, 02:31:10 PM


" Not one of us will ever receive the seal of God while our characters have one spot or stain upon them. It is left with us to remedy the defects in our characters, to cleanse the soul temple of every defilement. Then the latter rain will fall upon us as the early rain fell upon the disciples on the Day of Pentecost." {5T 214.2}



"The Spirit of the Almighty is moving upon men's hearts, and those who respond to its influence become witnesses for God and His truth. In many places consecrated men and women may be seen communicating to others the light that has made plain to them the way of salvation through Christ. And as they continue to let their light shine, as did those who were baptized with the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, they receive more and still more of the Spirit's power. Thus the earth is to be lightened with the glory of God.   
     On the other hand, there are some who, instead of wisely improving present opportunities, are idly waiting for some special season of spiritual refreshing by which their ability to enlighten others will be greatly increased. They neglect present duties and privileges, and allow their light to burn dim, while they look forward to a time when, without any effort on their part, they will be made the recipients of special blessing, by which they will be transformed and fitted for service.   
     It is true that in the time of the end, when God's work in the earth is closing, the earnest efforts put forth by  consecrated believers under the guidance of the Holy Spirit are to be accompanied by special tokens of divine favor. Under the figure of the early and the latter rain, that falls in Eastern lands at seedtime and harvest, the Hebrew prophets foretold the bestowal of spiritual grace in extraordinary measure upon God's church. The outpouring of the Spirit in the days of the apostles was the beginning of the early, or, rain, and glorious was the result. To the end of time the presence of the Spirit is to abide with the true church.  {AA  53.2-54.2}

It appears from these quotes and others that the latter rain comes after sin has been put away. And then it seals God's people and anchors them immoveable.  It also carries the message of the third angel with power. I'm thinking that means that the latter rain will drive home the message in the hearts of those who have continually moved upon the promptings of the early rain experience.

 "At that time, while the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel. At that time the "latter rain," or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel, and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out."  {EW 85.3} 
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: Ed Sutton on January 21, 2015, 07:38:54 AM
been elsewhere awhile.

Quote
Questions:
 Q. Must we overcome sin before probation closes?
A.  Only if we want to give Jesus to see in us the travail of His soul and be satisfied.  Only if the love from God dwells in us and we are moved to actually want Heaven & holiness instead of a fire escape.
 
Quote
Q. If so, how is this done? 
A. imitate how Jesus overcame, if not sure research it in SOP.   Compare <2nd Peter 1:1-12 + John ch's 14-17 + Eph ch 3 + 2nd Cor ch's 12 & 13 >  with the union of Jesus & life of Jesus - with father God in the 4 gospels.   Lookup   ( "sub* in Christ" = 18 hits )  (" complete in Christ" )   ( "not saved until" )  ( "vital transfusion" )

Quote
Q.  Does God require more of "The Last Generation" than He does of those who die before the sealing & the close of probation?

A.  No He requires the same.  Jesus makes it just as possible as earlier generations, but probation has run out of time.   

Psalms 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.


Daniel 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: ColporteurK on January 21, 2015, 08:31:09 AM
 
The Lord requires and enables His people to stand without a mediator and perfectly reflect His character at a time when Satan is more experienced in deception than any other time in his existence and when man is at his lowest point in terms of physical liability.

Never has man been required and empowered to live without committing sin (even one), without an intercessor, and when Satan is that honed and man is that weak. God will do more with less  than at any other time in human history. Man chooses and walks and God leads and empowers.

I do not believe that Martin Luther's experience was just the same as those who will be translated during the Time of Trouble.
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: restoretruth on January 21, 2015, 09:39:00 AM


" Not one of us will ever receive the seal of God while our characters have one spot or stain upon them. It is left with us to remedy the defects in our characters, to cleanse the soul temple of every defilement. Then the latter rain will fall upon us as the early rain fell upon the disciples on the Day of Pentecost." {5T 214.2}



"The Spirit of the Almighty is moving upon men's hearts, and those who respond to its influence become witnesses for God and His truth. In many places consecrated men and women may be seen communicating to others the light that has made plain to them the way of salvation through Christ. And as they continue to let their light shine, as did those who were baptized with the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, they receive more and still more of the Spirit's power. Thus the earth is to be lightened with the glory of God.   
     On the other hand, there are some who, instead of wisely improving present opportunities, are idly waiting for some special season of spiritual refreshing by which their ability to enlighten others will be greatly increased. They neglect present duties and privileges, and allow their light to burn dim, while they look forward to a time when, without any effort on their part, they will be made the recipients of special blessing, by which they will be transformed and fitted for service.   
     It is true that in the time of the end, when God's work in the earth is closing, the earnest efforts put forth by  consecrated believers under the guidance of the Holy Spirit are to be accompanied by special tokens of divine favor. Under the figure of the early and the latter rain, that falls in Eastern lands at seedtime and harvest, the Hebrew prophets foretold the bestowal of spiritual grace in extraordinary measure upon God's church. The outpouring of the Spirit in the days of the apostles was the beginning of the early, or, rain, and glorious was the result. To the end of time the presence of the Spirit is to abide with the true church.  {AA  53.2-54.2}

It appears from these quotes and others that the latter rain comes after sin has been put away. And then it seals God's people and anchors them immoveable.  It also carries the message of the third angel with power. I'm thinking that means that the latter rain will drive home the message in the hearts of those who have continually moved upon the promptings of the early rain experience.

 "At that time, while the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel. At that time the "latter rain," or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel, and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out."  {EW 85.3}

cp

Thanks for clearing that up!  So, doesn't it appear that the process of spiritual growth continues on in a person's life beyond overcoming sin to the point of reflecting Christ fully & being restored to God's image?  ... they receive more and still more of the Spirit's power. Thus the earth is to be lightened with the glory of God.  
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: ColporteurK on January 21, 2015, 12:23:05 PM
 
That's the way I read it . One example of that might be preaching ,speaking, and teaching, with more clarity, conviction and more power. That does not mean that one was transgressing the law before. God's people will be growing throughout eternity. I would assume that the unfallen angels are also growing as they more fully understand the character, will, and ways of God.
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: Watch and be ready on August 06, 2016, 01:13:42 PM
How unfortunate it is that people here would judge other Seventh Day Adventist Ministers. Calling someone arogant sounds ugly and hateful and very judgemental. It is people behaving this way that discourages me and would make others run away as fast and as far away as possible from the SDA church. Are you aware of how many others possibly that have read this and decided not to join or even visit the SDA church after seeing how you judge those you disagree with. How many have you chased away with your bitter words. Go ahead and have your opinion and disagree, thats fine. When people judge and demean others it just makes themselves look bad. So many people in our church think that quoting Bible verses and the Spirit of Prophesy somehow makes them holier/better. This page is easily found when doing a google search on the Holy Spirit. Thats how I found it. It saddens and discourges me to read the attitude that you attack other pastors with. Where does this vitriol come from? I am positve it doesn't come from the Holy Spirit. Be careful what you post for public eyes. Everyone with access to the internet on the face of the earth can read what you have written.
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: newbie on August 06, 2016, 08:46:54 PM
how do we warn each other of the error being taught in the churches?
should this be on a private chat area and not open to everyone?
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: Larry Lyons on August 06, 2016, 09:10:10 PM
how do we warn each other of the error being taught in the churches?
should this be on a private chat area and not open to everyone?
Newbie, perhaps we should have a private chat area like some other forums do.

I don't believe we should be holding up for public censure and even smearing the reputation of a pastor or anyone else because we we disagree with them. I don't recall that particular topic but we will have to be very careful in the future about that sort of thing. It is one thing to expose  open blatant apostasy such as we had a few years ago with  the self styled " prophet"  Ernie and his "dreams." But to "dis" some one for being soft on sin "by implication" and quoting Morris Venden  as much as we may disagree with MV's theology is very out of line. 

Larry
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: Ed Sutton on August 07, 2016, 04:53:49 PM
Quoting the originator of the topic
Quote
He was invited to speak at the Dakota Conference Campmeeting  and his CDs were copied and given to each family  in our church.

The originator did not seek out this situation it was thrust upon them, with the downwardly spiraling situation of apostasy in their home church, it made it so bad, their family had to move.   Are the posters "sighing and crying" wisely, painfully, foolishly - read inspiration - decide from Scripture & SOP. 

The matter of judging or calling sin by it's right name - ought be evaluated by inspiration, not opinion.  Judging the heart & motives is Biblically forbidden, fruit tasting and calling open sin by it's proper name is Biblically required; however that said - Jesus gave this warning.   Matthew 24: 8  All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9  Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
10  And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand : )
16  Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Quote
  Calling someone arrogant sounds ugly and hateful and very judgmental.   
    If Ed Sutton says arrogant words, with arrogant messages, in arrogant tones, demeans Scripture & SOP thereby and impugns those who trust and follow it - not just on the street, but from the pulpit as a SDA Minister supposedly called by God and paid by tithe - to proclaim and defend what he is demeaning and impugning, and turning believers in the pews into infidels, those who would write about Ed Sutton's behavior and speech flowing from a position of trust - church pulpit would not need to mention my motives at all, they are fruit tasting and warning others of the rottenness encountered.  ( I am not a pastor )

What would the effect be in hearers ?  In at least some of them Matthew 24:12 would come true. 

(  “to judge” motiv* = 21 published SOP hits )
(  “to judge” motiv* = 12 un-published SOP hits )
( “false charity” =  14  published SOP hits)
( “false charity' =  3  un-published SOP hits )
due to 5K, look them up and do your own reading, calling sin by it's right name is not the judging that is forbidden, it can be done wisely or unwisely, but the time comes it must be done.     

A wolf ravaging the flock is not sweet talked, and a little child in the faith is not corrected at the edge of a sword, even if one may be needed to protect them.
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: Watch and be ready on August 07, 2016, 06:07:20 PM
Ed Sutton, if you are a Christian and a Seventh Day Adventist, I don't want to be one or be associated with that group. I have never met someone who thinks they are perfect and have no faults. Let he who is without sin, throw the first stone
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: Ed Sutton on August 07, 2016, 06:08:42 PM
Quote
So many people in our church think that quoting Bible verses and the Spirit of Prophesy somehow makes them holier/better.
   - touches motives, that is Biblically forbidden as being- judging by Scripture's definition. 

Quote
It saddens and discourages me to read the attitude that you attack other pastors with. Where does this vitriol come from? I am positive it doesn't come from the Holy Spirit.
-  deciding who God talks through and what words come from God

He could have said – you poisonous snake – headed for hell – making others twice as bad as you – author ( Jesus Christ & John the Baptist – both Holy Spirit filled )
Matthew 3:7 ; Matthew 12:34; Matthew 23:33; Luke 3:7; Matthew 23:15

BTW I would not and do not want to go to that local church - either.  You have not had to endure what CP has had to endure, or what it has cost him and his family, cut him some slack.

However being an SDA is far different than how most folks present it.   If you would like to see my opinion upon that from study : try out this blog, too many SDA's in developed countries suffer little and are unkind much.

  http://salvationathreesidedcoin.blogspot.com   (http://salvationathreesidedcoin.blogspot.com)     surf all of the blogs and my position from your PC , I will not know when you are there. 

Matthew 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:32  Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:33  But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 12:50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Matthew 18:14  Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

Could it have been done better in the local church ? Don't know wasn't there.  Could CP have told the true Bible & SOP position on salvation & their definitions of character perfection - he tried repeatedly - shot down by the local church - repeatedly. 

Did he want to protect and strengthen and help the spiritually "little ones" the lambs of that local Church - discipleship & root and ground into Christ through Scripture & SOP - it seems he did everything he could.

Then he brings it up on this forum. 

First we acknowledge what he said (posted),

then we discuss it ( suspend judgment of his stance till it is discussed and we all get a better picture of the situation - we need more info.)

Is CP <as LE is of equal rank as pastor> or this Pastor - Biblically the hero or the offender ?
Title: Re: Elder Kevin Wilfley
Post by: Ed Sutton on August 08, 2016, 03:46:23 PM
Quote
Posted by: Watch and be ready
« on: August 07, 2016, 06:07:20 PM » Insert Quote
Ed Sutton, if you are a Christian and a Seventh Day Adventist, I don't want to be one or be associated with that group. I have never met someone who thinks they are perfect and have no faults. Let he who is without sin, throw the first stone

WBR Please define your statement. 

Are you saying you don't want to be part of what you call a bigoted group, or are you saying you don't want Christ and what He created when He spoke in John 10:16 & Revelation chapter 10 ?

John 10:16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Revelation 10:2  And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
Revelation 10:8  And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
Revelation 10:9  And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
Revelation 10:10  And I took the little book out of the angel’s hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

If it is the latter, you are not going to be helped by turning from Jesus due the perceived sins of someone else.

The parable of the sower is not talking about literal dirt & grain, it is the heart / life / responses to Jesus / with Satan interposing as an enemy to ruin the heart toward Jesus, using external events to cause a breaking of union with Christ, by affecting the hearts/minds of believers, as they see and experience external events that work to bring painful changes. 

God Himself called Job, perfect three times, Job said if he was he would not know, and though perfect later in the book God still needs to reprove Job.   Please define from inspiration alone - perfection . 

I will give my input on it to start the process - {7MR 389.1 - .4} ; John 17;26; Eph ch 3, 1St Corinthians ch 13; 2Nd Peter Ch 1:1-12; Colossians 1:27