Revival Sermons

The Christian Man and the Christian Woman => The Christian Woman => Topic started by: ColporteurK on August 11, 2014, 06:06:59 PM

Title: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: ColporteurK on August 11, 2014, 06:06:59 PM
Famous comedian and actor Robin Williams is dead at 63 of suspected suicide after suffering from severe depression. Our former pastor's wife said on face-book that this is so sad because the man brought such "joy" to people's lives. "Joy" is not the word I would have chosen to describe his effect on people. While suicide is always sad what saddens me more is the pastor's wife's idea of what brings joy to people . I do not wish to put down someone who has died, and apparently tragically, or the pastor's wife, but how can the wife of a man of the cloth consider a man dressing like a woman or playing an alien and presenting a comedy routine as making people "joyful"?  The fact that she would feel that way is depressing in itself. Is there no spiritual eyesight ? She was  physically sick because the Broncos lost the Superbowl. I'm so sad for the worldliness in our people.
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: Carl on August 11, 2014, 06:33:05 PM
Him and Whoopi were/are potty mouths of the first degree for all the world and children to hear and emulate.
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: ColporteurK on August 11, 2014, 07:27:40 PM
Him and Whoopi were/are potty mouths of the first degree for all the world and children to hear and emulate.

Obviously what this man was a great success at did not make him "joyful." I do not believe it made other people joyful either. An escape from reality will help no one.

Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: Carl on August 11, 2014, 09:05:23 PM

Obviously what this man was a great success at did not make him "joyful." I do not believe it made other people joyful either. An escape from reality will help no one.

So far, I've heard two versions of Williams death. One is the widely reported suicide, the other was that he fell fifty feet while filming in Austria.

In any case, I wish he is saved somehow. If it was suicide, it says he was depressed. It's certainly true, no matter how much money one has, it won't buy happiness.

 
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: newbie on August 12, 2014, 08:08:02 AM
I'm still in the shock of it all... can it really be true...seems like a dream to me at this point in time.
There is a lesson in all of this...
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: Larry Lyons on August 12, 2014, 03:54:35 PM

Obviously what this man was a great success at did not make him "joyful." I do not believe it made other people joyful either. An escape from reality will help no one.

So far, I've heard two versions of Williams death. One is the widely reported suicide, the other was that he fell fifty feet while filming in Austria.

In any case, I wish he is saved somehow. If it was suicide, it says he was depressed. It's certainly true, no matter how much money one has, it won't buy happiness.
The official statement was that he hung himself in his bedroom with a belt at his home in Tiburon CA, a small upscale community on the shore of San Francisco Bay. He was friendly with his neighbors who said that he did not "act like a celebrity." His wife had left the house thinking he was sleeping. His personal assistant called the police after going to the house and Williams did not answer the door. He had a drug problem and had relapsed a number of times after 20 years of sobriety. He was open about his drug problem which was apparently mostly cocaine. Cocaine is said to produce a very intense euphoria, and after stopping after a period of use there is often an equally intense depression. The tragic irony is that the intensity of the depression fades fairly quickly and they can often get past any thoughts  of suicide they might have.

I understand that Williams was in treatment for an on-going depression.
It is too bad that he probably never heard of Dr. Neal Nedley's depression treatment program which I believe is way ahead of and more effective than what main stream psychiatry has to offer.
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: Larry Lyons on August 12, 2014, 04:11:46 PM
When a movie star, a rock star, or any famous entertainer dies, the public responds as though they had some kind of real personal relationship with the famous person, and they mourn almost like a family member had died.  As a society we seem to have exchanged the true reality of our daily lives  for a false reality composed of fantasy relationships with the rich and famous who, in many cases have nothing but contempt for the public that worships them and buys the tickets and CDs that pay for their often lavish lifestyles that in many cases includes plenty of drugs, alcohol an sexual promiscuity.
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: ColporteurK on August 12, 2014, 06:00:07 PM

 As I try to analyze this the question comes up, why do people get so attached to stars ? I suppose one reason is because they spend so much time with them. Sometimes it is every day. Maybe another reason is because their media relationship places them in a position where they cannot be hurt. It is pretty hard to be hurt by someone you are not even able to speak to. Some people live out their dreams and fantasies through stars just like parents often do the same through their children. The whole Hollywood thing is an escape from what is often by comparison a dry, dull,  grind of a life. It need  not be that way especially for SDAs above all people. We are given insight into deep things and  our prophetic message is anything but dull. Investing in people for eternity not only pays back big dividends here and now but the best is yet to come. It is the real deal when it comes to true satisfaction and long term hope, joy, and peace. Everything else is fluff by comparison. Everything else pales by comparison. Attempts at happiness in the world by getting and having is like trying to hug a soap bubble.
   
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: GraceVessel on August 15, 2014, 06:37:11 PM
Very delicate on this response.  I don't know Robin Williams, neither do I have his "gift set" or skills in either humor or a creative mind... few do.

I find it a major indicator of the focus of what "good" he did... there is none. Only about his faults and about hero worship. 

My view on it is that (based on the information available).  RW had some major issues with severe depression.

This is not the time or place for us to "discuss" his sins and issues. It's a time for us to lift up his family in prayer.

I find it a turn off to just "jump on the bandwagon" and give the impression.. oh yea.. there's another one... "going to hell".

It sends the wrong message.

I acknowledge his gifts and contribution to the culture.  It's a turn off to me... but that's my HO

with kind regards,

Gracevessel
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: ColporteurK on August 15, 2014, 06:53:45 PM
  The point of this thread was not about Robin Williams however some have made it so.  Do you think GV, that this man's "gift set" and "creative skills" glorified God ?

 I find it a turn off to build up someone who glorified evil with foul  language and often crude humor, who was a drug addict and hung himself. The point of this thread was how sad it is that an SDA pastor's wife thought this kind of thing brought " such joy to people." It brought no more joy to people than it did to himself. It is not a put down of the man himself but simply speaking to what is well known publically. I think our people are very confused as to what constitutes joy. To watch the superbowl and to be physically sick because your team lost is very sad and we wonder why our people are depressed and discouraged when these things are what their lives revolve around.

This is an SDA forum and I believe it is the place to discuss these kinds of things. This man is no longer and his family realizes that a as a public figure there is a public response to his life work.


   I agree about prayers for the family of Robin Williams. That is in no way hindered here.
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: GraceVessel on August 15, 2014, 07:08:00 PM
  The point of this thread was not about Robin Williams however some have made it so.  Do you think GV, that this man's "gift set" and "creative skills" glorified God ?

 I find it a turn off to build up someone who glorified evil with foul  language and often crude humor, who was a drug addict and hung himself. The point of this thread was how sad it is that an SDA pastor's wife thought this kind of thing brought " such joy to people." It brought no more joy to people than it did to himself. It is not a put down of the man himself but simply speaking to what is well known publically. I think our people are very confused as to what constitutes joy. To watch the superbowl and to be physically sick because your team lost is very sad and we wonder why our people are depressed and discouraged when these things are what their lives revolve around.

Robin Williams life brings into constructive/destructive relief various talents and behaviors or lack thereof.   I considered him gifted with humor.  Although humor and laughter are not "approved behaviors"... some people in our culture (the one we live in in this media saturated age and due to hero association and "reality TV" visualizations... the line is blurred regarding what constitutes "acceptable behavior". 

My point is that (as I've experienced recently with VERY in-appropriate comments when loosing a spouse), sometimes jumping on the bangwagon to call someone OUT, during the time of their death, ... just doesn't cut the compassion meter imho..

but that's me. 

Everyone that is reading this thread cant just move to Hartland... and become a vegan.  Although I commend those that do and follow the way they are led.

with kind regards,

Gracevessel
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: ColporteurK on August 15, 2014, 07:20:17 PM
Since you insist on making this about the man instead of my concern about the wife of our pastor and her confusion, let me ask, do you think his "gift" of humor was of God ?  Did his humor make YOU joyful ? "Contribution to the culture" like "the Beatles." Sadly, this man is gone but at least he is no longer perpetuating profanity and foolishness. Not only is his family alive but so are our youth who read face book and get mixed messages from our people. On an SDA forum I believe if we err we need to err on the side of our SDA youth rather than on the side of Robin William's family who do not likely read anything here. While I care about the man and his family I care about our youth and we ought not blur the line as to what constitutes yes "evil."

If I am "calling someone OUT" it would be church leadership that isn't getting it and is giving impression that such humor is a contribution to the joy of the people. I believe many have a misguided idea of what is compassion. Is it compassionate to lead our youth to think that the road to joy is to listen to foul comedy ? Lord help us !

Who said anything about Hartland and being vegan ? What has that to do with the subject ?

I'm sorry you have been hurt by those who were not compassionate concerning your wife. That is another subject , however.

Happy Sabbath !
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: GraceVessel on August 15, 2014, 08:13:01 PM
I never said his humor was "appropriate".

The facts are:

He is very well known due to his longevity on TV/movies/and humor.  Yes his language at times and humor at times is very distasteful and not fit for a Christian audience.

You are free to post when and how you want.  I am just saying at this time (regarding his family) and the thirst of the American people shows no regard for his family - specifically the media.  I've lost a spouse.  My heart goes out to his spouse (and his recent spouses) that have lost someone. And also his children.

If my concern for his family -- you consider sinful or inappropriate... given the fact that he is a sinner... I cant change that.  The pastor's wife talking about "joy", I have no context or knowledge of and never addressed that part of the thread.  And I want address it... doesn't need to be addressed.. don't know the context how how she meant it "joy" in a  sense... given his cultural personality ... or personal to her).  They both mean different things (regardless of our "views") on RW.. he was a famous individual that many people in our place and time consider "funny", "humorous", and/or "comical".  (sinner or no... those were his gifts)

I get your view on laughter (not allowed per EGW).  I am not talking about that.  My question to you or anyone else is? how do we convey humanity and compassion? Is it living out our life by LBE only, condemnation or both?   Are we supposed to go around making sure all fellow (SDA's.. you know the ones that we consider "saved")... to make sure they stay on the straight and narrow?  or should our focus be on presenting truth within a relational context? or both? or not? and who determines the context? me? you? EGW? the Bible? all or both or none? or does it matter.  Should we just condemn and leave the results with God.  Why take responsibility for our actions?  Should we even consider those that don't agree with us within the SDA culture.

I will give you the example of "no harm no foul"... some pastor says you are gay... then after further discussion it is determined via proxy and Matt 15:18 that you are not.  Does the pastor then take responsibility of the "wrong accusation" or does he get off "scott free" because he is a pastor and says "no harm no foul"... I don't think so.  Of course if he does accuse you of being gay and if you are... well... he can put another notch in his gun for convicting another sinner for Jesus... (insert whatever "sin" or misbehavior in the "gay" slot ... and it still applies imho)... Better to know the facts before proceeding with any corrective process.  I've been on church boards and seen power plays before.

I've seen this in action with both the Bible and the SOP used VERY INAPPROPRIATELY.  Just because someone has the "truth" ... doesn't give them carte blanche to go over peoples spiritual and personality boundaries to "correct them".

with kind regards,

Gracevessel

Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: ColporteurK on August 16, 2014, 05:10:56 AM

 By your example you are implying that the facts are incorrect. Show that they are. What do you want, for us to play clips here for our people to watch so they can hear the language and content ?  Context does matter. This idea that no one knows and no one is supposed to know and it does not matter that no one knows so don't say anything about evil is skewed. Joy is joy, so let's not debate what the meaning of "is" is. Giggling at someone dressed like a woman and tickling the carnal funny bone is not "joy." Using God's name in vain for a laugh is not joyful.
The family of this man does not read about the man. Do you know why ? Because there are literally millions of  discussions on this of every size and shape. The family could care less what you say and think because every possible statement has been made about him and his work. Families tune out to this kind of thing. This is about our people and how they view and present that which is biblically abhorrent.
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: GraceVessel on August 16, 2014, 09:11:36 AM
You win..

It's biblically abhorrent.

There you go.

Ignore it... it will go away.

with kind regards,

Gracevessel
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: Ed Sutton on August 30, 2014, 12:05:46 PM
Whether Mr Williams was dear or not to Christ is not an issue because Christ died to rescue him, but was righteousness and Scripture dear in his life, or was he a typical prisoner in Hollywood's gilded cage ?

Accusation of cross dressing - Q.   Mrs Doubtfire = a woman dressing like a woman ? - or a man dressing like a woman as the basis for the whole movie ?   A.   Robin Williams was Mrs Doubtfire. 

Isaiah 5:20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21  Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
22  Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23  Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
24  Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

Did his cinematic / theatrical / comedy clubs / radio / TV -  work make money off of justifying wickedness for money ?

Compared to Scripture what are the fruits of his life's work > to God or > from God ?

No more false charity and human sentimentality - no more justifying another Hollywood lifestyle ending badly - when someone gets famous and rich - but not through righteousness - the world adores him or her .    Why ? ( * * * )

Does Scripture hold up the fruits of righteousness in vain ?   What does Scripture actually say about righteousness ?   Does Scripture stutter or mumble - or does it speak plainly ?

 * * * ( Why they are adored by the world )
John 3:
19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20  For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

sureimsure

You have called C.K. a double deep child of hell because he has agreed with Scripture about the fruits of Robin William's life . 

Quote
you aren't any better than these accusations your trying to bring upon others. if fact, you might be worse according to scripture. . "twice the sons of hell. . . as their Pharisee fathers.. . "   

You come across with a lack of Bible grounding or appreciation of Scripture in your post.

I am not hesitant to post my real name and face here .

Edward F Sutton

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Family/ED_BCG.jpg)
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: oatmeal on August 30, 2014, 02:43:02 PM
you needn't post a photo of yourself.
i know full well who you are. smyrnanite.
i refuse to argue with you people
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: restoretruth on August 30, 2014, 05:37:31 PM
Interesting pic, Ed! Where was this taken? Big as life, but interesting. Do you always wear that happy smile?  :-)  Smyrnanite? :?
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: GraceVessel on August 30, 2014, 05:40:31 PM
Nice beard  !!!
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: newbie on August 30, 2014, 05:48:21 PM
could be the smoky mts.
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: newbie on August 30, 2014, 05:48:59 PM
Interesting pic, Ed! Where was this taken? Big as life, but interesting. Do you always wear that happy smile?  :-)  Smyrnanite? :?
Ed is not a Smyrnanite...
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: Larry Lyons on August 30, 2014, 06:49:51 PM
Ed, Smyrnanites were better than us Laodiceans. I think you got a promotion.  :-)

In a more serious vein, we should keep in mind that this is an open forum. Unregistered guests can read everything we post. We need to keep in mind the impression we make may appear much different than how we intend them. The posts we make are a one dimensional picture of who we are and the kind of Christians we are.

Reading back on our posts about Robin Williams, I can see how others could get a poor impression of us. It is true, none of us knew the man personally. We only knew him as an actor and an entertainer which he did as a profession and which was mostly play-acting. We know from reports from his neighbors that he was friendly and did not put on airs as a celebrity.

His wife announced a few days after his death that he had not relapsed on drugs, his recovery was intact and that he had recently been diagnosed with early Parkinson's disease.

As I said, I did not know Robin Williams, but I do know Leslie Dixon, who co-wrote the screenplay for "Mrs. Doubtfire" and several other movies. I haven't seen her in a few years, (except on facebook) but I know her as a down to earth, witty, intelligent, talented and fun to be around person. As far as I know she is not a Christian, and like the late Robin Williams, she is no better and no worse a sinner and is in need of the Salvation that comes only through Jesus Christ. 

My point is that celebrities, probably most of whom are in a lost condition and are making no preparation for heaven, need our prayers and our pity. Without Jesus Christ we are in the same boat.

My other point is that we ought to be aware of the impressions we make when we post so as not to be misunderstood.
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: ColporteurK on August 30, 2014, 07:48:32 PM
 Very handsome picture Ed, and you're wearing my favorite color. You are younger than I had anticipated.

 The reason for this thread was really not to discuss Robin Williams per se though a couple of people have made this the issue. The concern was about a pastor's wife being so confused as to what constitutes joy. What is inside of us is reflected on the outside. I do not think there was true joy on the inside or else drugs and a premature death would not result from it.

I suppose we might have made the person anonymous and just talked about the story as though it were hypothetical. When people place themselves ever before the public on screen however they expect to get talked about. They generally relish being talked about. We are not judging one's salvation but rather discussing the fruit of what some are claiming was joyful activity.

I think we should be clear that humor and especially that kind of humor is not after the manner of God. This is not a personal thrust but an attempt to clarify confusion.

I think of a famous rock singing star who died of a drug overdose. Women went hysterical when he merely wiped his face with their towel and through it back to them. Women screamed and fainted in his mere presence. I was quite a fan of his years ago. His last years were sad before he passed out and died in the bathroom from drugs  and heart failure. It seemed he began so innocent with his guitar and country gospel songs. He got caught up in the mania and idolatry and became a prisoner in his own mansion. I think we need to be clear that there was NO glory in this and the women that panted after this married man were  not happy and joyful. They were lustful and idolatrous.

There is so much confusion in the world regarding superstars and their talents.

Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: newbie on August 30, 2014, 08:00:36 PM
Ed, Smyrnanites were better than us Laodiceans. I think you got a promotion.  :-)

I thought oatmeal was referring to the modern day smyrna rather than the Rev. 2 church...sorry.  I guess we need clarification from mr. oatmeal.
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: ColporteurK on August 30, 2014, 08:28:16 PM

    No, brother Ed is a modern day Edamite of the best kind !   :-D
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: Ed Sutton on August 31, 2014, 05:24:50 AM
I prefer "vegemite" - or- "Mr Brussels" - north Australia would be good this time of year, and I did go to the gym this morning.

As long as it's not Edomite - that pedigree is sort of stinky sour, without the piquant zing of a lemon or lime, sorta like a carton of milk three days old spilt on the floorboard of a car.

1 Samuel 21:7  Now a certain man of the servants of Saul was there that day, detained before the LORD; and his name was Doeg, an Edomite, the chiefest of the herdmen that belonged to Saul.

1 Samuel 22:9  Then answered Doeg the Edomite, which was set over the servants of Saul, and said, I saw the son of Jesse coming to Nob, to Ahimelech the son of Ahitub.

1 Samuel 22:18  And the king said to Doeg, Turn thou, and fall upon the priests. And Doeg the Edomite turned, and he fell upon the priests, and slew on that day fourscore and five persons that did wear a linen ephod.

1 Samuel 22:22  And David said unto Abiathar, I knew it that day, when Doeg the Edomite was there, that he would surely tell Saul: I have occasioned the death of all the persons of thy father’s house.

Psalms 52:1  « To the chief Musician, Maschil, A Psalm of David, when Doeg the Edomite came and told Saul, and said unto him, David is come to the house of Ahimelech. » Why boastest thou thyself in mischief, O mighty man? the goodness of God endureth continually.

BTW my son Joel gave me the long sleeve shirt and tie tack & cuff links , the back ground is Black Canyon of the Gunnison in Colorado, when I did a 13 wk's Sleep Lab Travel assignment out there.

I posted my picture of about 5 yrs ago & name, because it was my response to flaming while hiding under the umbrella of an avatar pseudonym.    I choose to have the necessary avocados to post my real name and look  eye to eye as far as possible, and my response was a very restrained rebuke.    The picture needs resized it's far bigger than anticipated.
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: Ed Sutton on August 31, 2014, 05:53:44 AM
I prefer one of these two but that was many moons and many miles & lbs ago.

Nashville First SDA Church - Nashville TN - 07-20-1975 - Pastor Nathan Sims presiding .

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Family/wed06.jpg)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Family/wed05.jpg)

She got me to the city but I am still redneck around the collar. 

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Family/myLinda.jpg)

I admit it I am a little nuts over her .....

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Brevard%20Transylvania%20County%20Western%20NC%20USA/whitey-baby-deck-110607-2.jpg)

and I am a hardheaded redneck from the hills & sticks

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Brevard%20Transylvania%20County%20Western%20NC%20USA/LookingGlassRock.jpg)

Brevard NC

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Brevard%20Transylvania%20County%20Western%20NC%20USA/comingintoBrevardfrom64Enearwheretriangledriveinusedtobecfiles30002.jpg)

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Brevard%20Transylvania%20County%20Western%20NC%20USA/WNCmap.jpg)

why home is called BlueRidge

(http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/EFSutton/Blue%20Ridge%20Parkway/5409789-lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: newbie on August 31, 2014, 03:00:00 PM
may no one ever accuse you of hiding behind internet facades....
Title: Re: Has it Come to This ?
Post by: ColporteurK on August 31, 2014, 04:41:24 PM
may no one ever accuse you of hiding behind internet facades....

 That is a most handsome picture of Ed topped off with blue. Love it !

We almost ended up your neighbor Ed, as we were considered a year or so ago to work in Asheville.