Revival Sermons

The Family => Overcoming Marriage Issues => Topic started by: Richard OFfill on April 04, 2011, 06:09:17 AM

Title: Tell me if I'm wrong
Post by: Richard OFfill on April 04, 2011, 06:09:17 AM

What I am going to  say relates to Seventh-day Adventist marriages.

I am convinced that marriages are breaking up because the espouses are not born again Christians. Do born again Christians get a divorce? I say No.
Title: Re: Tell me if I'm wrong
Post by: Raven on April 04, 2011, 02:40:36 PM
I agree.  Married couples who have been converted will treat each other according to the principles outlined in Matt. 7:12 and I Cor. 13.  If those simple principles were put into practice it would be impossible to get a divorce.  Selfishness is at the root of all marital problems--in my humble opinion.
Title: Re: Tell me if I'm wrong
Post by: Soli Deo Gloria on April 07, 2011, 04:03:52 AM
What I am going to  say relates to Seventh-day Adventist marriages.

I am convinced that marriages are breaking up because the espouses are not born again Christians. Do born again Christians get a divorce? I say No.

Pastor,
I think in general this is true. However, I might be careful in making a blanket statement about this.

However, to change topics somewhat. I notice that you are the only other person on this website to use the term "born again".
This is the Biblical term. Do you hear this term used much in Adventist circles?

Yes. I know the term has been abused and treated lightly at times.

Why do so many use the term "converted" instead of "born again"?
Jesus uses the term "born again". Changing the language to conversion is not helpful, as this is not the term Jesus used.

Jesus says in John 3:3-8: "Ye must be born again", not "Ye must be converted". The word "conversion" implies a human element to the process. Humans can be converted to any type of ideology.

Being born again means a miraculous birth wrought by God Himself:

 John 1:12,13 is very specific.

John 1:12,13:
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
--------------------
If we are born of God, this goes far beyond the meaning of conversion.

And, yes, if a person is truly born of God, then the life will follow it, which means not getting divorces and much more.

There are statistics thrown around that 50% of marriages among Christians break up, and it is about the same in the SDA church.

However, Chuck Colson, the former Nixon white house aid, who went to jail, and was born again while in jail, and wrote a book called "Born Again", has said that he doesn't believe the 50% statistics. First of all, we don't know who is genuinely born of God. And, Colson says that it is likely that the divorces are not happening very frequently among those who are truly born again.

This would support what you are saying

Stan
Title: Re: Tell me if I'm wrong
Post by: Larry Lyons on April 07, 2011, 09:07:30 AM
Pastor,
I think in general this is true. However, I might be careful in making a blanket statement about this.

However, to change topics somewhat. I notice that you are the only other person on this website to use the term "born again".
This is the Biblical term. Do you hear this term used much in Adventist circles?

Yes. I know the term has been abused and treated lightly at times.

Why do so many use the term "converted" instead of "born again"?
Jesus uses the term "born again". Changing the language to conversion is not helpful, as this is not the term Jesus used.

Jesus says in John 3:3-8: "Ye must be born again", not "Ye must be converted". The word "conversion" implies a human element to the process. Humans can be converted to any type of ideology.

Being born again means a miraculous birth wrought by God Himself:

 John 1:12,13 is very specific.

John 1:12,13:
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
--------------------
If we are born of God, this goes far beyond the meaning of conversion.

And, yes, if a person is truly born of God, then the life will follow it, which means not getting divorces and much more.

There are statistics thrown around that 50% of marriages among Christians break up, and it is about the same in the SDA church.

However, Chuck Colson, the former Nixon white house aid, who went to jail, and was born again while in jail, and wrote a book called "Born Again", has said that he doesn't believe the 50% statistics. First of all, we don't know who is genuinely born of God. And, Colson says that it is likely that the divorces are not happening very frequently among those who are truly born again.

This would support what you are saying

Stan
Stan, see Ps 51:13, Is 60:5, Mt 13:15, Mt 18:3, Mk 4:12, Lk 22:32, Jn 12:40, Acts 3:19, and acts 28:27. It seems pretty clear that "conversion" is definately a biblical term and concept, and means the same thing as being born again.

(3) Jesus answered and said unto Him,"Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)
(3) And said, "Verily verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted , and become as little children ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3)
Title: Re: Tell me if I'm wrong
Post by: Ed Sutton on April 07, 2011, 06:14:42 PM
I can not think of a single instance - where if husband and wife were both born again and daily converted, that a divorce was ever involved.   Physical death - yes, but a seperation of their covenant to God and each other - no.

If one or both spouses pulled apart, they were also pulling away from Jesus - probably first, then each other second.
Title: Re: Tell me if I'm wrong
Post by: Soli Deo Gloria on April 07, 2011, 11:12:10 PM
Stan, see Ps 51:13, Is 60:5, Mt 13:15, Mt 18:3, Mk 4:12, Lk 22:32, Jn 12:40, Acts 3:19, and acts 28:27. It seems pretty clear that "conversion" is definately a biblical term and concept, and means the same thing as being born again.

(3) Jesus answered and said unto Him,"Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)
(3) And said, "Verily verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted , and become as little children ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3)

Larry,
Your points are well taken. :-) I will admit that the word conversion is in the texts that you mentioned.

Both terms are Biblical, but they mean different things.

Conversion is a general term. Being born of God, or born again, as in John 1:12,13 and John 3 is a very specific term, unique only to Christianity. There can be no genuine conversion to Christ, if God does not do the miraculous work of the new birth. When we are born again as a new babe in Christ, we then start the process of being more completely converted. When Paul was miraculously regenerated on the road to Damascus, he was born into the family of God, but he required a long period of teaching before he became completely converted. This teaching was done by Jesus Himself in the desert of Arabia as Galatians 1 attests.

True conversion will follow the miraculous new birth. I am more completely convinced of the truth of the Bible now than when I was given a new birth in Christ over 28 years ago.

The book of John was written much later than the synoptic gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. The synoptics chronicle some of the specific teachings of Jesus warning the Jews of the impending destruction of Jerusalem.

The emphasis in the book of John is more directed to Christians. That is why I believe it is significant how the first chapter of John gets right to the point of who Jesus is, and in verses 12 and 13 speaks very specific to the new birth:

John 1:12,13:
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
-------------
Without this miraculous birth, there can be no genuine conversion.

Then in the entire chapter of John 3, Jesus gets right to the point with Nicodemus about the necessity of the new birth to be in the kingdom. He then spends the rest of the chapter giving very specific teaching about salvation.

One can be converted to any specific ideology. False conversions to Christianity occur when there is no miraculous new birth.

But, I have noticed that some just don't like to use the term "born again". But just because the term has been abused so often doesn't mean that it is not valid, and not Biblical.

Intellectual SDA's of the Graham Maxwell type will not use this term. Most Roman Catholics and mainstream Protestant churches also turn up their noses at using this term. They don't want to be associated with those Bible thumping Baptists who emphasize the necessity of the new birth all the time.

Stan
Title: Re: Tell me if I'm wrong
Post by: lily-of-the-field on April 29, 2011, 02:44:28 PM
I can not think of a single instance - where if husband and wife were both born again and daily converted, that a divorce was ever involved.   Physical death - yes, but a seperation of their covenant to God and each other - no.

If one or both spouses pulled apart, they were also pulling away from Jesus - probably first, then each other second.
Yes, occasionally a godly person may need to separate from their spouse eg if it becomes unsafe to stay under the same roof as a dangerous person who is capable of murder or harming children.