Revival Sermons

Theology => The Sabbath => Topic started by: Richard OFfill on October 04, 2009, 09:57:42 AM

Title: Present Truth
Post by: Richard OFfill on October 04, 2009, 09:57:42 AM
I was thinking, about the word  'present truth'. The Sabbath is present truth. The Jews keep the Sabbath. Does this  mean that the Jews have present truth?
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Larry Lyons on October 04, 2009, 10:53:22 AM
I was thinking, about the word  'present truth'. The Sabbath is present truth. The Jews keep the Sabbath. Does this  mean that the Jews have present truth?
In the field of formal logic that type of reasoning is a particular kind of fallacy.  :-)
The answer is no. Present truth for the Jews now is to believe and accept the three angels' messages which includes the everlasting gospel.
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Richard OFfill on October 04, 2009, 01:16:32 PM


Pilots fly. Butterflies fly, therefore pilots must be butterflies.
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Raven on October 04, 2009, 02:43:26 PM
The Sabbath is indeed present truth.  But for the Jews, present truth was that the Messiah had come.  They rejected that truth, and although they worship on the Sabbath, they are not worshiping the Lord of the Sabbath; and so they receive no real benefit from it.

By the way I searched in my college logic textbook, and was unable to find the name of that fallacy, but it is a common one.

Pilots fly better than butterflies; birds fly better than butterflies.  Therefore, pilots are most likely birds.   :-D
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: lotrob on October 04, 2009, 05:48:09 PM

By the way I searched in my college logic textbook, and was unable to find the name of that fallacy, but it is a common one.

Pilots fly better than butterflies; birds fly better than butterflies.  Therefore, pilots are most likely birds.   :-D

It's called a Syllogism, isn't is? 

Lottie
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Raven on October 05, 2009, 02:59:40 AM
It's called a Syllogism, isn't is? 

Lottie

Good work!  You get the scholar's award.  :salute:  It is indeed a syllogism, albeit a fallacious one.
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: newbie on October 05, 2009, 09:40:47 AM
The Sabbath is indeed present truth.  But for the Jews, present truth was that the Messiah had come.  They rejected that truth, and although they worship on the Sabbath, they are not worshiping the Lord of the Sabbath; and so they receive no real benefit from it.


Agreed that Sabbath is present truth and so is the whole Law and we can only keep it faithfully if we have the indwelling of Christ Jesus...  Unless they accept Jesus into the heart, they will be lost.  We will soon be tested on this present truth.... be ready :-)
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Larry Lyons on October 05, 2009, 10:35:22 AM
Agreed that Sabbath is present truth and so is the whole Law and we can only keep it faithfully if we have the indwelling of Christ Jesus...  Unless they accept Jesus into the heart, they will be lost.  We will soon be tested on this present truth.... be ready :-)

I agree that the Sabbath is "present truth" in that it is part of the whole system of God's plan of salvation that is in effect today.
However, I may be mistaken, (thats nothing new) but the usual use of the term "present truth" as used by EGW and the pioneers referred to the testing truths that demonstrated loyalty to God in each era of history. Although one can argue that the Jews did not truly keep the Sabbath in their day because their Sabbath keeping was according to the rules of the priests and rabbis, and not according to the Scriptures, as Jesus so often demonstrated in his dealings with them. But they did not dispute the fact that the Sabbath is binding and that they are obligated to keep it.  The testing truth for Jews then and now, is that Jesus is truly the promised Messiah and their salvation depends on their acceptance of this truth. Every other part of God's plan of salvation flows from that.  Jews can be saved as individuals the same as everyone else.
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Aged_Tater on October 21, 2012, 12:13:56 PM
I like this thread.  Thank you so much pastor O'Ffill for creating it.  I'm just wondering pastor, in all your expanse of service in the SDA Church, what do you consider to have been "present truth", and have you encountered any "new light" that Ellen White prophesied of in this prophecy:

"Said my guide, "There is much light yet to shine forth from the law of God and the gospel of righteousness. This message, understood in its true character, and proclaimed in the Spirit, will lighten the earth with its glory. The great decisive question is to be brought before all nations, tongues, and peoples. The closing work of the third angel's message will be attended with a power that will send the rays of the Sun of Righteousness into all the highways and byways of life, and decisions will be made for God as supreme Governor; His law will be looked upon as the rule of His government."  {1888 166.1}

Thank you for humoring an old tuber.
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: resolute on October 21, 2012, 05:18:01 PM
Present truth has to do with the message relevant to the old testament typology being fulfilled presently.
So for instance, the present truth of circumcision was necessary in Moses days. However in Paul's days the present truth is that circumcision is of the heart. You can see this similar thread with the nation of Israel, it was first literal seed, then it went to the gentiles. Likewise the health message, after the flood God allowed the eating of meat, but when the children of Israel were on their way to the promise land, He fed them with bread from heaven, and they provoked Him for flesh meat. In Luther's time present truth was that salvation was by grace through faith. In 1844 present truth is Babylon is fallen, come out, and do not accept the mark of the beast. So for us now, present truth would be the 3 angels message and the health message. And may be expanded to dispelling the wrong ideas people have about hell, death, the sanctuary and the investigative judgment.

well I am not an expert on these things but hope this answer is correct. Larry correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Aged_Tater on October 21, 2012, 07:18:38 PM
The three angel's messages were present truth for Ellen White's day...  I'm talking about PRESENT as in right now and the decades leading up to it.  Not that the three angel's messages are not relevant or present truth right now either...  Every period of time either has present truth or it doesn't.  If you say our time doesn't...  That's a grave admission.



Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Raven on October 22, 2012, 03:14:14 AM
The three angel's messages were present truth for Ellen White's day...  I'm talking about PRESENT as in right now and the decades leading up to it.  Not that the three angel's messages are not relevant or present truth right now either...  Every period of time either has present truth or it doesn't.  If you say our time doesn't...  That's a grave admission.



I don't see where Resolute was suggesting that there is no present truth for our time.  What was present truth 100 years ago is still present truth:  Babylon is fallen; come our of her my people; the Lord is coming soon.

But we've reached that period of time of which Ellen White warned us, a time in which every wind of doctrine would be blowing.  Those my age and older can remember a time when you could hear truth preached at nearly every SDA Church in the world.  Now, you don't know what to expect:  a rock concert, a puppet show, or hostility to the SOP.  This has all come about in the past 40 years or so.  We are in the midst of the shaking.  I believe what occurred in the CUC and the PUC this past summer are part of that.  All the aberrant theology (such as belief in evolution and disbelief in the IJ) we are seeing today will cause (is causing) a separation.  Those who are diligent students of Scripture will settle into the truth; those who are not will be shaken out.
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Aged_Tater on October 22, 2012, 07:20:04 AM
Yes, every wind of doctrine is/are blowing...  And that might be the best thing for God's people since they should be settling into truth anyways.  But the question remains...  What is present truth for this time that wasn't present truth for Ellen White's?  I suppose there doesn't have to be present truth but with every wind of doctrine blowing as you say, there OUGHT to be a truth present now that was not present then.  Do you get my drift?  But this ONLY if we are advancing in the truth.


Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Aged_Tater on October 22, 2012, 07:58:28 AM
Quote from: Ellen White
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: newbie on October 22, 2012, 09:47:59 AM
so true that there will be more truth but we have to be careful...

a few things have not yet been revealed such as the 7 thunders...

Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Aged_Tater on October 22, 2012, 09:51:05 AM
...But that is not really from the law of God.

Quote from: Ellen White
Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: Ed Sutton on October 23, 2012, 06:43:52 AM

Quote from Newbie:
a few things have not yet been revealed such as the 7 thunders...

 MayI rephrase that ?    ..........   

Title: Re: Present Truth
Post by: newbie on October 23, 2012, 08:10:57 AM
Hi Ed....yes she talks about them but does not give any indication as to what they are... they will come during the last angel's messages of Rev. 18....