Revival Sermons

News => From the Pastor's Desk => Topic started by: Richard OFfill on October 13, 2008, 03:35:30 PM

Title: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Richard OFfill on October 13, 2008, 03:35:30 PM
I have been working on the companion book for the first quarter 2010 lesson quarterly that I have written that will be about the Fruit of the Spirit. The first in the list is Love.

We are all acquainted with 1 Corinthians 13 which is called the love chapter. Please review it and then I am going to ask some questions.

1
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: newbie on October 13, 2008, 05:18:29 PM
Once the Holy spirit of God fills our hearts and purifies us and transforms us, we will be a well of living water flowing love in all directions.  We will not be able to keep it in as we would burst otherwise.  It is the Love of Jesus in our hearts and everything that we do will spring from love....  the love that poured in from above and the power of it sustains us and refreshes and the words we speak will sanctify others as we witness what the Love of Jesus has done for us.

We will not want to do anything that would not be of God because we so want this love to fill us and refresh us on a daily basis.  This communion with Christ just like He communed with the Father. 

Every overcomer will have this self sacrificing love from above with power and joy and peace.

We should be an encourager of the brethren and look to Jesus and be positive and give hope to those that are going through trials and temptations.

newbie
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Soli Deo Gloria on October 14, 2008, 12:12:08 AM
Pastor,

Thanks for another insightful and soul stirring challenge!  It is certainly a matter of priorities. I think some put the cart before the horse. The very basic question of most importance is whether or not we are truly born again? Only those who have been born again will enter the Kingdom of Heaven as Jesus outlines so clearly in John 3:1-8.

And if we are truly born again, or born of the Spirit, then the AGAPE love that the Holy Spirit imparts will show itself in the type of love that we as Christians should all manifest. If we don't have this love, then we are not born again. So much of the New Testament is devoted to this topic, that I am surprised it doesn't come up in conversation more often.

John 13:34,35   Jesus gives us this command:

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye LOVE one another; AS I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

 35 By THIS shall all men KNOW that ye are my disciples, IF YE HAVE LOVE one to another.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can anyone imagine having a theological argument over whether we should love one another as Christ has loved us? Think about it. Yes it is easy to have a theological argument about meat eating, or wearing wedding rings, or eating chocolate cake. These are externals by which others are judged that the Bible does not emphasize.

 Paul in Galatians emphasizes again the truth he writes in 1 Corinthians 13:

Galatians 5:14,15

 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
------------------------------------------------------

The apostle John who wrote the gospel of John as well as the book of Revelation writes this in his epistle of 1 John 3:14-16:

 14We KNOW that we HAVE PASSED from DEATH unto LIFE, because we LOVE the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

 15Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

 16Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is this sacrificial love that distinguishes us as Christians. When we are truly born again, then we will start to manifest this love. Then, as we study more, and the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, then we will try to live healthier, and keep things out of our lives that will impede our walk with the Lord. But, these issues only follow after we have the new birth which God imparts to all who believe on His name:

John 1:12,13:
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stan
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Raven on October 14, 2008, 03:18:22 AM
Ellen White said that we should read I Cor. 13 every day.  I wonder how many actually do that?  It would be a good chapter to memorize.  However, memorizing it and reciting it every day still won't produce the fruit of love in one's life, anymore than memorizing the entire Bible would give one a ticket to heaven.  We cannot conjure up the agape that is described in I Cor. 13, anymore than we can jump off a roof and fly.  The apostle John said that "God is love."  Therefore we must go to the Source of love if we are to ever become like what is described in the "love chapter."  I believe one of the main reasons we don't exhibit this agape more often is because we are focused on self rather than on Christ.  Self-centeredness and true love cannot exist in the same person at the same time.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Richard OFfill on October 14, 2008, 06:01:03 AM
Stan,
You are sharing my concern. We do tend to talk, even argue, even fight  :oops: about any thing and every thing. Yet whether we be liberals or conservatives everything else is a 'sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal'. I am very convicted and troubled about this. Sometimes I think we need to remind ourselves that the Sabbath itself has no meaning unless it is grounded in loving the Lord with all our hearts and our neighbor (family members) as ourselves. From these hang all the law and the prophets.

It is safe to say that this church has no message unless it is based on this. The saved will be this way. I believe we had better get down on our knees individually and together and pray this one through.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: lily-of-the-field on October 14, 2008, 10:29:38 AM
3. Would marriages be breaking up the way they are if this chapter were implemented in the life of even one of the spouses?
I am a little concerned that this suggests that if a Christian marriage has broken up we can presume that both parties were in the wrong and that even the one who seems most Christlike cannot really be so in the home or else the marriage would have survived.

If even one spouse is Christlike does not necessarily a guarantee a good marriage: one of two things generally happens - either the less believing spouse warms to their Christlike spouse (and to Christ), or, the less believing/unbelieving spouse becomes an instrument of the enemy to attack the spouse who is close to Christ.  We know that Satan hates those who are close to Christ, it has always been and will be much more so toward the end of time as individuals polarize either to Christ or Satan.   Some lovely Christian individuals have suffered badly in their marriages and deserve the benefit of the doubt if their marriage broke and we do not understand everything that went on behind the scenes.

But yes, the chances of things being generally happier and healthier are increased in the presence of a loving and lovable Christian.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: El on October 14, 2008, 11:01:47 AM
Stan,
You are sharing my concern. We do tend to talk, even argue, even fight  :oops: about any thing and every thing. Yet whether we be liberals or conservatives everything else is a 'sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal'. I am very convicted and troubled about this. Sometimes I think we need to remind ourselves that the Sabbath itself has no meaning unless it is grounded in loving the Lord with all our hearts and our neighbor (family members) as ourselves. From these hang all the law and the prophets.

It is safe to say that this church has no message unless it is based on this. The saved will be this way. I believe we had better get down on our knees individually and together and pray this one through.

  I just wish that we could hear more sermons preached in our churches today about "The Gifts of the Holy Spirit".  We need to love more and criticize less.    EL
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: lily-of-the-field on October 14, 2008, 11:08:10 AM
We do need to learn to love more, El.   To reflect the image of Christ fully is to love as Christ loves, to have all the fruits of the Spirit in abundance.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Raven on October 14, 2008, 12:05:51 PM
  I just wish that we could hear more sermons preached in our churches today about "The Gifts of the Holy Spirit".  We need to love more and criticize less.    EL

The gifts of the Spirit aren't doing anyone any good unless they are accompanied by the fruit of the Spirit in the one who possesses the gifts--assuming God would even bestow these special gifts on those who don't exhibit the fruit of the Spirit.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Larry Lyons on October 15, 2008, 07:48:02 PM
I have been working on the companion book for the first quarter 2010 lesson quarterly that I have written that will be about the Fruit of the Spirit. The first in the list is Love.

We are all acquainted with 1 Corinthians 13 which is called the love chapter. Please review it and then I am going to ask some questions.

1
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Agatha on October 15, 2008, 08:08:04 PM
I have removed the posts that are out of touch with this original topic. They are now on the moderator's forum. Some posts that will not make sense without the context of the other posts will also be removed. If I don't do that the poster will appear to be out of touch with the topic.

Agreed! Thank you, Larry!
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Raven on October 16, 2008, 03:54:33 AM
Agreed! Thank you, Larry!

Like a breath of fresh air.  :salute:
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Pamela Adams on October 16, 2008, 04:02:10 AM
Pastor....for almost a year now we have had a young Korean man and his wife attend our church, they are in their 30's...he was a former Adventist who was very bitter....but through a dedicated Adventist teacher of English language to foreign students....she persuaded him to come to our little church and reintroduce him to the Seventhday Adventist church. Shortly after starting to come to church, he was diagnosed with cancer. Our church made it a point for him to go to Yuchee Pines and he has also had conventional treatment, but his cancer continues to advance into other organs etc. He rededicated his life awhile back and he and his wife became members of our Church.

Our church has prayed for this couple and he has been anointed. This past year we have had many deaths among our members, the loss of a child, the middle aged and the old. For me, at times, it seems so unfair for this young man to have  this cancer.

.....One evening, while in prayer....and thinking about this young man and his wife....a question came to my mind......it was .....Pam, would you be willing to give your life for this young man......for him to live? It seemed like I heard a voice asking this of me....I paused and had to think about it....you see, my daughter and my husband have cancer....I think I would be able to say yes, if the question were asked of me, regarding them.  But for this young man and his wife......if this were required of me....I realized I was not so willing......and then I thought about how we pray for others and our attitude to wards other's needs....are we really willing to sacrifice for those who are not friends or family? I concluded....that I was not.......and that it is Jesus who desires for us to become like Him....to have the Agape Love....that he has for each one of us......until then .....I am not ready for Heaven.....

Amazing Grace...page 235:

The Grace of Christ must mold our entire being and it 's triumph will not be complete, until the Heavenly Universe shall witness; habitual tenderness of feelings, Christ like love and Holy deeds in the deportment of the children of God.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: newbie on October 16, 2008, 10:08:02 AM
Pastor....for almost a year now we have had a young Korean man and his wife attend our church, they are in their 30's...he was a former Adventist who was very bitter....but through a dedicated Adventist teacher of English language to foreign students....she persuaded him to come to our little church and reintroduce him to the Seventhday Adventist church. Shortly after starting to come to church, he was diagnosed with cancer. Our church made it a point for him to go to Yuchee Pines and he has also had conventional treatment, but his cancer continues to advance into other organs etc. He rededicated his life awhile back and he and his wife became members of our Church.

Our church has prayed for this couple and he has been anointed. This past year we have had many deaths among our members, the loss of a child, the middle aged and the old. For me, at times, it seems so unfair for this young man to have  this cancer.

.....One evening, while in prayer....and thinking about this young man and his wife....a question came to my mind......it was .....Pam, would you be willing to give your life for this young man......for him to live? It seemed like I heard a voice asking this of me....I paused and had to think about it....you see, my daughter and my husband have cancer....I think I would be able to say yes, if the question were asked of me, regarding them.  But for this young man and his wife......if this were required of me....I realized I was not so willing......and then I thought about how we pray for others and our attitude to wards other's needs....are we really willing to sacrifice for those who are not friends or family? I concluded....that I was not.......and that it is Jesus who desires for us to become like Him....to have the Agape Love....that he has for each one of us......until then .....I am not ready for Heaven.....

Amazing Grace...page 235:

The Grace of Christ must mold our entire being and it 's triumph will not be complete, until the Heavenly Universe shall witness; habitual tenderness of feelings, Christ like love and Holy deeds in the deportment of the children of God.
What a statement of faith!
This is so true of our natures Pamela....  would you give your life for a murderous sinner in jail?  Would you ask God to heal a  lung cancer if the person refuses to quit smoking?  This is where Jesus supersedes us all by loving them enough to die for them.   If we are living as Jesus lived and walked, I think that we would not even think about it and yes, give our lives for them.

newbie
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: teresa on October 16, 2008, 04:05:32 PM
that makes one seriously sit back and take stock of oneself!!
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Pamela Adams on October 16, 2008, 09:08:19 PM
Many of us often think the opposite of love is hate....but I am learning it is "self".........  this is the enemy that so easily besets me. 
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: newbie on October 17, 2008, 10:01:05 AM
Many of us often think the opposite of love is hate....but I am learning it is "self".........  this is the enemy that so easily besets me. 

Yes, I do agree with this Pamela.  It is easy to see the change in Genesis when Adam and Eve loved each other so much and would do anything for each other and God and then Satan entered the scene.  Quickly the blame game started and it was all selfishness. 
newbie
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: teresa on October 17, 2008, 05:18:21 PM
that is what will happen at the second coming.  the people will turn on their pastors instead of accepting the responsibility for not searching the scriptures for themselves and taking a stand for the Lord.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: newbie on October 17, 2008, 05:37:53 PM
that is what will happen at the second coming.  the people will turn on their pastors instead of accepting the responsibility for not searching the scriptures for themselves and taking a stand for the Lord.
Absolutely!!
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Deborah Risinger on October 19, 2008, 03:06:58 PM
This conversations reminds me of the story about Corrie Ten Boom...after her freedom from the Nazis...she had heard... the man that was her family's neighbor..(the one one who turned them into the Nazis for hiding Jews) was very ill and very poor.....she made arrangements to bring him to her home, and she cared for him as if they had been friends.

(I am paraphrasing the story of course)....this truly is the Agape' Love of Christ....

God's Blessings'
Deborah

Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Soli Deo Gloria on October 19, 2008, 05:08:10 PM
Great story and example that Corrie Ten Boom gives. In her case there is no question that she was motivated by agape love.

But looking again at 1 Cor. 13:3

" And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This verse says that even if we give our lives and all our goods for another, but it is for the wrong motive, or not motivated by agape love, then it means nothing. This really brings all our actions and motives under a very penetrating microscope.

Who can live up to this kind of standard?

The New Testament standard of righteousness goes far beyond the Decalogue, which is of course our basic standard of righteousness, but our righteousness according to Jesus must exceed that of the scribes and pharisees.

Jesus gave us a new commandment in John 13:34 'A new commandment I give unto you that you LOVE one another AS I HAVE LOVED YOU'.

Pastor O asked in his opening post, whether 1 Cor 13 was only a suggestion or just a theory?  Jesus says that the kind of love He is commanding is just that--a command!

I am overwhelmed when I think of the implications of loving one another as Christ loved us.

I wonder when we argue back and forth about Christian perfection whether we consider the implications of what it really means to be perfect in the Christian sense of the word? I think it goes far beyond obeying the 10 C's as important as this is.

Our only hope is trusting in the mercy and grace of Christ!

Stan
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: teresa on October 19, 2008, 08:44:27 PM
great points made in the posts!!  and so very true!!


what gets me is, the times a thought to do someone good comes to mind and immediately a selfish reason for doing it comes!!
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: El on October 22, 2008, 05:00:02 PM
.

Questions:
1. Is this chapter just a theory? Is it a suggestion?
2. Often we speak about the 144,000 as having gotten victory over sin. What will be their relationship to 1 Corinthians 13?
3. Would marriages be breaking up the way they are if this chapter were implemented in the life of even one of the spouses?
4. I have been studying love as taught by Jesus. His focus is to love our enemies (that could include a husband, wife, parents - then what about other members in the church who don't agree with us?)

I am baffled that we speak about the end times, victory over sin, a healthful diet (these things we ought to have done) but when it comes to loving each other as described in the love chapter you can forget it, it is just an option at best or a theory at worst.
Who is the real enemy - the papacy, Iran, the contemporary worship styles?

I am thinking that I had better rethink the whole thing. Something tells me that the track that is easy to get on doesn't go anywhere.

  Pastor,  does the teacher have the answers?  Maybe if we could have an explanation  of how you would answer all these questions,  we as students and congregation could better understand.  I want the answers, and further understanding may be given to us who are not quite so learned.  These are very important things for us to understand.  Does it not take two or more to come to an agreement?  Can one person alone save a marriage?  Argument can never solve a problem.  So how can we better understand the love of Jesus?  Can we ever enter heaven when an enemy is in our vocabulary?  Can our enemy be sin itself? I seem to be walking in circles. 
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on November 21, 2008, 12:45:46 AM
How I was taught to OBTAIN <25>agapos <26>agape

In 1991 my family and I relocated from Kentucky to Nashville, then on down to Theodore AL.   My wife & I had been trained as missionaries at Wildwood in the early 70's.   I had wandered away from God and took the whole family down with me. 

God used circumstances to convict me and my wife, and as unconverted's still on the books but fully worldly - we recognized we were not ready. 

Once reconverted I was worse than helpless.  I remembered enough that I was in too deep to pull myself out I no longer remembered how to pray, study, or know God - my candlestick had before that been moved out of it's place.  (lookup candlestick solomon )

I dimly remembered that Jesus is the best teacher a human could relate to, He is the Prince of teachers.  I could not agape / agapos love and I remembered the text "he that loveth <25> (5723) not knoweth not God." And I remembered that Jesus said to the lost rejected in His parable "I don't know you"   "I know not whense ye are".

I was desperatly being crushed.   I could not force myself to love <25> <26> like He does in His perfected humanity, and I was tempted to see it as hopeless.

Then the thought came to me - I remembered a passage from yrs ago  "obtained like precious faith", and like a life preserver thrown to a drownding man overboard in a storm - I realized - I must cry out to Jesus and ask Him to teach me to OBTAIN this love frm Himself alone and believe He will do it because I trust Him and am helpless in my need.     The promise of John 6:63 would be my lifeline and preserver .... i would see that later.

I asked Jesus to tutor me and so He started ............ continued later........
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: BobRyan on November 21, 2008, 08:01:41 AM


I am baffled that we speak about the end times, victory over sin, a healthful diet (these things we ought to have done) but when it comes to loving each other as described in the love chapter you can forget it, it is just an option at best or a theory at worst.

Who is the real enemy - the papacy, Iran, the contemporary worship styles?

I am thinking that I had better rethink the whole thing. Something tells me that the track that is easy to get on doesn't go anywhere.

I agree.

On some message boards (SDA centered) you find "anything passes for SDA" and there is often some animosity If you happen to agree with all 28 FB. But they emphasize love and acceptance "for all"

On a few others boards - you find a group at the opposite end.  Not only do they strongly censure failure to sign up to all 28 FB and all of Ellen White (often quoting EGW instead of scripture 90 to 1 when making a case) but they go beyond that to arguing that if you do not agree with them on xyz ministry (for or against depending on the scenario) then you are also to be shut down etc. You see a lot more "that is of satan" comments on those kinds of boards.

But if we may refer to Ellen White - her argument is that when the Holy Spirit is submitted to  - there is repentance reformation and unity in the Spirit INSTEAD of attacks criticism fault-finding evil surmising. She speaks of the Millerite movement just prior to 1843 in this way - a group that was experiencing the real fruit of unity in the Spirit. That dropped denominational boundaries and also dropped some prominent amellinnial and post-millennialist errors.

In 2SM 57 (there I go again) she refers to leaders in the SDA church that will be so devoid of the Holy Spirit they will condemn manifestations of it in the last days. A jugmental condemning spirit instead of the FRUIT of Love, joy, peace patience etc. And you know what - you can actually go some places and see this in living color.

I have to think that among those of Ezek 9 that sigh and weep over the sins being comitted in Israel are those who realize that the condemning thought-police critical spirit that sometimes surfaces -- is not at all the fruit of real vital Godliness (living Godliness).

Preach it brother!

in Christ,

Bob
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on November 21, 2008, 11:23:14 AM
What Bob brought up about sighing and crying is not what Isaiah 58 describes that happens among the ones who hate but profess to love.  The sighing and crying is those who love but feel powerless to change the situation, they yearn toward the offenders because the compassion for the sinner that lives in perfect human nature of Christ - they have as much of that in them as they can hold in their humanity.     They want to rescue the offenders and reconcile them to God and their be Heaven's portion of consecrated holy unity between them, and the one time offenders who are now repentant restored kind hearted fellow believers "in the faith".    But the offenders refuse such and maintain that they defend the truth - while they obey Satan's ways and attitudes - in so "defending" in their eyes the truth, and ravages the reputations of anyone whom they disagree with or disagrees with them.

God adresses the issues of back biting (and biting face to face for that matter ), those folks will never ride upon the high places of the earth, they will never rebuild what was broken.

Isaiah 58;

(fasting by spiritual cannibalism ) - "58; 3
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on November 21, 2008, 04:19:27 PM
How I was taught to OBTAIN <25>agapos <26>agape    .......  continued

Jesus would bring to mind various passages of scripture and I asked Him to open my understanding and show me what to pray for and teach me how to find out and what to do with what the Bible said.   Since Scripture says that the writings of prophecy = the testifying the testimony of Jesus, I asked Him to tutor me using that too, and direct and guide my reading and cause me to find the things He wanted me to see and investigate.

Sometime after that I was reading Christ's Object Lessons in conjunction with Scripture.   many places stood out, but one page did more - I started to see and undertand a process.  A supernatural process.

On the next installment I will tell why this process would come from a background that would be very meaningful for me and why none of this could be just an unused theory; it would have to become a living experience of supernatural realities; or it could not do me any good.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Deborah Risinger on November 21, 2008, 05:07:35 PM
Ed,

     Your testimony of having a hard time "loving" brought to mind a book you may be familiar with, "Living God's Love" by Douglas Cooper.

It was one of the earliest books I read as a new SDA.  It really helped me to connect the dots about "love"...I was happy to find, that I can love people (how I treat them, respond to them etc...) even though I did not have "good feelings" toward them.

I (in God's power)can treat with kindness and can pray for them even though my carnal nature was/is fighting me.  That helped me a great deal.



Bob,

   A dilemma that "seems" to happen frequently is....that if I (anyone) disagrees with a worship style, certain music for "worship"...perhaps "how" Sabbath is "kept" etc.....the fact that I see it differently "in of its' self" causes a  problem.
The understanding of "seeing things differently" causes a rift. And in that, I am accused of being harsh and unloving.  Yet, those who disagree with me (I will pick on myself here) demand to "not be seen" as they see me.

I wish those "rules" went both ways.   :-(

God's Blessings'
Deborah

Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on November 22, 2008, 01:57:39 AM
How I was taught to OBTAIN <25>agapos <26>agape    .......  continued

Hi Deborah

At that time my need was too pressing to have any confidence in authors who were not prophets, I needed what came from God according to His offical agencies that had supernatural power to change existing realities.  Hence that would for my needs be, as John 6:63 puts it - words with supernatural life and power in them because God sent the words and stands to fulfill those words.

Other authors did not demonstrate that they had overcome and conquered Satan, so I had to only go by the words of the one person in humanity Who did.  it wasn't that I felt others were bad authors, but they had not been there and done that and so I only felt that I could trust the instruction and testifying and tutoring of the One Who had proved conclusivly that He did get it right 100% and I could trust my present survival and eternal hope on whatever He said, lived, and taught back then and now.

When a contract is written, it is spelled out who has power to set terms and perform actions.   Those persons only can edit, modify, maintain, fulfill their end of the terms of the contract.  The contract also spells out the other person involved (me).  

The conviction was too strong to trust mortals with.  The conviction because of the Holy Spirit's work - covered not just my past but my present and also who and what I had become and following and filled with - not just my behaviour.  

I was being caused to remember pieces of quotes and texts and passages, and my wife through all our moves steadfastly kept all her SOP books, and I still had a Bible, and between us a Young's and or Strong's Exhaustive Concourdance (i don't remember if we had both or not.  

I was pleading with Jesus to teach me and reminding Him that since I had spent 6 yrs so darkening my self I did not trust coming to my own conclusions - please guide me to where He testified and set forth His conclusions both in the Bible and His testifying for me in these last days - the SOP.   To cause me to read pivotal things in both and have those things jump out - to impact me grab my attention and then start opening my mind to their worth and how He wanted me to apply them in my life because I remembered James says the do-ers get the life and blessings within - not the reading forgetters.

I was convicted more and more strongly what the NC State motto talks about -  "TO BE RATHER THAN TO SEEM"  

I seemed to be drawn to the book wherein Jesus explains His lessons behind the parables.  Reading Scripture, going to Christ's Object Lessons, after heartfelt prayer - self examination comparing myself with how Jesus is represented - then reading - praying - cross referencing - reading - attempting to put to use what I would find as He would lead and gradually open my mind.

(using standardised paging)  

I read p- 384-385 of Christ Object Lessons.  Here was a pivot point - a make it or break it cross roads, this jumped out at me with lasting and unfolding force, (as well as corroberating Scripture texts and passages as time went by.)

I was and still am convinced certain things regarding the love/compassion dwelling in the humanity of Jesus that He obtained from His Father.   And also convinced I did not have that and convicted I must have those things no matter what it cost to get them.

But now that I knew basically what I must have, I did know how to get it; trying and trying harder and harder did not work, because what is approved of in 1st Corinthians Ch 13, and what moved the humanity of Jesus - is INTERNAL AND FROM ABOVE - NOT ALREADY INSIDE - or I would not be empty of it and in desperation because of that emptiness through the conviction sent by the Holy Ghost.

Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: teresa on November 22, 2008, 12:44:52 PM
Quote
I was convicted more and more strongly what the NC State motto talks about -  "TO BE RATHER THAN TO SEEM" 

I seemed to be drawn to the book wherein Jesus explains His lessons behind the parables.  Reading Scripture, going to Christ's Object Lessons, after heartfelt prayer - self examination comparing myself with how Jesus is represented - then reading - praying - cross referencing - reading - attempting to put to use what I would find as He would lead and gradually open my mind.

(using standardised paging)   

I read p- 384-385 of Christ Object Lessons.  Here was a pivot point - a make it or break it cross roads, this jumped out at me with lasting and unfolding force, (as well as corroberating Scripture texts and passages as time went by.)

I was and still am convinced certain things regarding the love/compassion dwelling in the humanity of Jesus that He obtained from His Father.   And also convinced I did not have that and convicted I must have those things no matter what it cost to get them.

But now that I knew basically what I must have, I did know how to get it; trying and trying harder and harder did not work, because what is approved of in 1st Corinthians Ch 13, and what moved the humanity of Jesus - is INTERNAL AND FROM ABOVE - NOT ALREADY INSIDE - or I would not be empty of it and in desperation because of that emptiness through the conviction sent by the Holy Ghost.

being individuals the Lord reaches us each differently with different materials.  i mean i have been convicted through reading other things but more by seeing how ugly, hateful and hurtful,  self-righteous holier-than-thou behavior is.  seeing that behavior has driven me to my knees  to plead with God for a heart and right vision, more than anything i have ever read.  then the reading tells me how God would have us behave and treat others.

being "right" and having the "truth" too many times, seems to be far more important than behaving as Jesus did.   it is a constant struggle to be on my knees begging to be more Christlike in all that i do!!

Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on November 23, 2008, 04:06:46 PM
Since I had asked Jesus to tutor me and that He plainly said that His words are Spirit and Life.   I started reading and was reading more than one thing; but felt moved to read Christ's Object Lessons.

I felt I must have as much of the portion of the life that is in the humanity of Jesus in me that i could hold.    His words could do that in me, and Bible & SOP are His words - so seeing my circular 5yr old's logic was in harmony with the Bible - I started reading Christ's Object Lessons - again after years - in prayer, faith, hope in Him to both be and do.

1st Corinthians ch 13; John ch 17; Eph 3:14-21; 2nd Peter 2:1-12; Love <25> <26> in 1st, 2nd, 3rd John

Here is the quote that jumped out at me from Christ's Object Lessons

"The sanctification of the soul by the working of the Holy Spirit is the implanting of Christ's nature in humanity. Gospel religion is Christ in the life--a living, active principle. It is the grace of Christ revealed in character and wrought out in good works. The principles of the gospel cannot be disconnected from any department of practical life. Every line of Christian experience and labor is to be a representation of the life of Christ. {COL 384.1 }

 Love is the basis of godliness. Whatever the profession, no man has pure love to God unless he has unselfish love for his brother. But we can never come into possession of this spirit by trying to love others. What is needed is the love of Christ in the heart. When self is merged in Christ, love springs forth spontaneously. The completeness of Christian character is attained when the impulse to help and bless others springs constantly from within--when the sunshine of heaven fills the heart and is revealed in the countenance. {COL 384.2}

It is not possible for the heart in which Christ abides to be destitute of love. If we love God because He first loved us, we shall love all for whom Christ died. We cannot come in touch with divinity without coming in touch with humanity; for in Him who sits upon the throne of the universe, divinity and humanity are combined. Connected with Christ, we are connected with our fellow men by the golden links of the chain of love. Then the pity and compassion of Christ will be manifest in our life. We shall not wait to have the needy and unfortunate brought to us. We shall not need to be entreated to feel for the woes of others. It will be as natural for us to minister to the needy and suffering as it was for Christ to go about doing good. {COL 384.3}"


This caught my attention, I read it over and over , I would bookmark it and read it repetedly and ask to be empowered to soak it in to have my understanding open to grasp it.       This is what I must have ....here it was .....written in my language .......plainly spoken

Daniel prayed 3 times a day and I will tell the process that was opening to my mind in the next installment ........

to be continued.......
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on November 24, 2008, 09:54:29 AM
( I didn't  know to do it or how to go about it then,  but did do a Strong's number search with Bible software  <25>  <26>   pulling up all the texts and ignoring the translators definitions (too watered down and biased ).  Good preperation to examine - what moved the humanity of Jesus - even though HE HIMSELF SAID - "I of mine own self can do nothing" .     Where did He get <25>  <26>   because He was forbidden to pull it from His Divine Christ nature - His eternal SELF - His Godhood was 100% off limits for Him to use in however He had to live as one of us.

So my quandry was that Jesus is shown in Scripture over and over - loving the sinner though He knows all about the sinner inside and out, always moved with superhuman uncorrupted compassion.  This did not come from His Godhood, it did not come from inate humanity - (seed of Abraham), so where and how did He get it ?   The Scripture was brought to memory...."AS I LIVE BY MY FATHER....that's where He got it but then how do I get it   ??   Memory continued ....."whoso eateth...thats what I want His life in me - but how ......live by me  John 6:54-57.

Now I saw the beginning of the answer - get <25>  <26>    as a gift that every beliver is expected to go to God and lawfully obtain that through what ever God's process was to get it .

But I was not sure of the process needed to get it, I assumed prayer ..... so I started praying ....and continued reading the inspired things God had said.

I found other quotes about God's views of the purpose of what He calls love in the gospel process of internally recreating the beleiver.

"  Love to man is the earthward manifestation of the love of God. It was to implant this love, to make us children of one family, that the King of glory became one with us. And when His parting words are fulfilled, "Love one another, as I have loved you"  (John 15:12); when we love the world as He has loved it, then for us His mission is accomplished. We are fitted for heaven; for we have heaven in our hearts.  {DA 641.3}"

"The soul of the prophet, emptied of self, was filled with the light of the divine. As he witnessed to the Saviour's glory, his words were almost a counterpart of those that Christ Himself had spoken in His interview with Nicodemus. John said, "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: He that cometh from heaven is above all. . . . For He whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto Him." Christ could say, "I seek not Mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent Me." John 5:30. To Him it is declared, "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows." Heb. 1:9. The Father "giveth not the Spirit by measure unto Him."  {DA 180.1}

     So with the followers of Christ. We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We cannot discern the character of God, or accept Christ by faith, unless we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. To all who do this  the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and in Him ye are made full." Col. 2:9, 10, R. V.  {DA 181.1}"

Along with this 2nd Corinthians 10:3-6 and Ephesians 3:14-21 (reading KJV) was jumping out at me as I read them - in reinforcement of DA 181 quote.

I kept on asking Jesus to tutor me.......and so He was........testimony concluded next post.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Larry Lyons on November 24, 2008, 10:33:11 AM
Again, we have to ask that we not make long posts. Installments are not in keeping with the spirit of the request. This is a discussion forum. Please cooperate.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Larry Lyons on November 24, 2008, 05:41:31 PM
Ed God ahead and post the conclusion of your testimony. Of course an appropriate penance will be required.  :-)
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: reaching4heaven on November 24, 2008, 06:11:26 PM
Of course an appropriate penance will be required.  :-)

Surely no Hail Mary's?    :-o


:-D
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on November 24, 2008, 06:59:24 PM
Thank You.

Things I was reading in Steps to Christ p-94-99 convinced me that prayer and acting on what was prayed was the basic nature of the process.  Below the line is offered as both the basic process I learned to follow, and can be freely used as a printout witnessing handout by anyone - freely received - freely give  - this concludes the testimony - ment to inspire hope - God convicts a person to elicit heartfelt interchange.
****************************************

I found the way to get the attitude of the "golden rule" implanted in me. It is not something any person either has or does not have, it is a gift from above. Therefore anyone can get it if they do these basic things.
1. Ask for it in prayer several times a day (even quietly from the heart while working - without speaking-Heaven hears)
2. Pray till you really want it, at first it is usually prayed without much desire to get it, prayer changes the person
praying - the concept "fake it till you make it" - works. Keep asking till it is desired and it happens.
3. Act as though you have it already, after asking for it, the Red Sea and the Jordan River didn't open till people stepped
into the edge of the H20.
4. If you have a family, get them all joining you in asking, and acting on it; everyone will get the similar attitude = happy family unity - otherwise only you will get the attitude and they won't = family disunity. This is generically what I asked for after reading the quote below. Please cause my self to be merged in Christ, please implant and cultivate in me the impulse to help and bless others constantly, please cause the sunshine of heaven to fill my heart and is revealed in my countenance. I asked this 3 times a day - and started acting as though I had it and thanking Heaven for receiving it - then started progressively getting it. The internal benefits are long lasting. This transcends ideologies, anyone can have it. The Golden Rule process is for sharing freely.

Acts 10:
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Psalms 32:8 I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.
John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me
may be in them, and I in them. (Biblically name = character)

If desired here is a link to COL = the book "Christ's Object Lessons". It is part of a series of nine books, written from
1880's - 1915.
To download these books as freeware in e-book format for PC, Laptop, PDA, Blackberry, Ipod, I-phone, etc - go
to this link
http://www.whiteestate.org/books/ebooks/help/mobibooks.htm.
First download freeware mobipocket reader using the link.
Second download freeware Mobi-prc files of the entire books. Set of column of mobi-prc files on the left .
Third go to your downloads section and install the mobipocket reader by right clicking on it and clicking open.
Fourth import the mobi-prc files of those whole freeware books into your mob i-pocket reader by clicking on import and
browsing the download area to find the mobi-prc book files then click on open or import.
Fifth click on the book title you want to read, use the right side tabs to go forward and the left side tabs to go backward.
Click the X in the upper right corner to exit, and click on mobipocket reader icon to open it and the book title, start
reading from where you stopped at.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on November 24, 2008, 07:02:57 PM
I was asking God, if He wanted me to post the conclusion, to move on Larry's heart to show me favor.  He did and Larry allowed it; thank you both.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: El on November 26, 2008, 09:46:48 AM
I was asking God, if He wanted me to post the conclusion, to move on Larry's heart to show me favor.  He did and Larry allowed it; thank you both.
Thank you, Ed.  I understand.  You must have spent many hours in research.    EL
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on November 27, 2008, 11:43:30 PM
Actually this is the personal experience I had after our family moved to Theodor AL just before the first gulf war started.  This is a boiled down summary of the personal need I was convicted of, and God's way to give me what would satisfy that need.

I is the story of how God caused me to become aware of His simple process that would put me in position to both obtain the desire to receive agape/ agapous - and once desiring it with my whole heart and acting on His promises - start obtaining as much agape / agapous as I could hold in my human nature and put to use.

My mistake was that I did not get my wife and kids to start this process with me.   I became ignited by a joy that found it's greatest fulfillment and contentment in living out the golden rule, being only motivated by agape/agapous, striving to do what Desire of Ages p-181 talks about - "to all who do this.........measure."; and ministering to friends, enemies, strangers, who ever God introduced me to and prompted me toward.     They not being mutually ignited were at home while I was helping and blessing others, they felt left out and a lot of my time was not focused on them, unless I was bringing home hitchikers to feed or folks who needed a place to stay for awhile.

This created a reaction that would not have existed if I had been wiser.   

That's why i said in the generic outline of the process, get your family members praying for it, till "faking it till they make it" they are changed enough by the repoeated requests to be submurged in Christ - as inspiration and He teaches them - till He causes them to want it with their whole heart too.  Explain to them that the Red Sea opened when the people marched down till their feet got wet, the Jordan stopped and piled up when the feet of the priests touched the water.   Action motivated by hopeing God will honour His word and action taking action to put that trust in action - seems to be the ignition switch, and clutch, and gears.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Larry Lyons on November 28, 2008, 09:38:59 AM
Ed it is very good advice to involve your family and not make unilateral decisions about taking someone in that will affect their lives. Boundries should be preserved.  I have a friend who learned that the hard way. A few years ago I was close to a large family of a different culture. It is a culture noted for their hospitality and generousity. It was a large extended family with parents, grandparents and 5 children. At one point the father brought home a homeless alcoholic man. The man had a sense of entitlement and caused a lot of resentment in the family before they were able to send him on his way. I believe that the home is a special place that should be reserved for family unless the occasion indicates otherwise, and then it should be with in put from family members before a decision is made.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on November 28, 2008, 12:02:20 PM
El, 

Perhaps though it was a personal experience, after looking at it - considering what you said - it was research.   Instead of achademic research to be published or to write something for sale, or any achidemic interests; it was research to both : experimentally take hold of God's tools and God's process, and in faith activated by decision and action take a hold of and put to use God's offered power - to fill the needs of an emptied heart, and humbled mind - with the Spirit and life of Jesus.

Since the research is spiritual, that explains why secular academic research rarely goes there, unless the researcher is personally united to Christ.   

I wonder what it was like for the researchers that were both academic and joined to Christ and thirsted for more each day ?

I wonder if Issac Newton described such blended (spiritual and secular) research in any of his works ?    (for example)

Part of Einstien's math was wrong.  He said nothing - or nothing physical - could exceed the speed of light.

Gabriel went through the Orion Nebula to Earth while Daniel was praying that portion in Daniel chapter 9, 1500-1600 light years distance.

It has been said - reading Daniel's passage in Hebrew - it takes approx 4 min's.

1500-1600 light yrs in 4 min's.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on October 09, 2009, 04:35:13 PM
Since I last posted God has helped me interest others, SDA & Non SDA & non Christian in obtaining the compassion that moved Jesus.     It is written that in the last days "primitive godliness' will be revived.  It is probably a safe estimate that being filled with agape, agapous, philio - will be part of that godliness.  It might be a topic worth examining from Scripture & Jesus's testifying about it.


Ps 110:3  Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Matthew 25: 1-46 same parable 3 different facets

(Oil-less virgins = agapeless Church Members espousing a pure message),  their foolishness is Biblically being fools = turning away from intimate union with Christ. And they are not interested in soulwinning.

(Talents = Church members who are filled with agape, agapous, philio that compels them to put what God offers to use )

( sheep & goats = proffessed Christians who do not have the compassion of the Golden Rule moving them out of their ruts inorder to unselfishly minister to others in need.)

Message & doctrine is refered to, but union with God and the resulting Agape, agapous, Philio that compells them to minister to others as naturally as it was for Jesus.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: El on October 09, 2009, 09:45:18 PM
Since I last posted God has helped me interest others, SDA & Non SDA & non Christian in obtaining the compassion that moved Jesus.     It is written that in the last days "primitive godliness' will be revived.  It is probably a safe estimate that being filled with agape, agapous, philio - will be part of that godliness.  It might be a topic worth examining from Scripture & Jesus's testifying about it.



Ed, in your conquest of doing the work that God is wanting of you to interest others, of all creeds,to learn of the compassion of Jesus, have you been able to interest and include your wife and children in the efforts that you make?  Have they decided to help you in your work for the Lord? How nice it is, as a family, to work to save souls for the kingdom of God. I have found that to have Agape love for those closest to me gives me a closer walk with Jesus. 
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: newbie on October 10, 2009, 11:31:29 AM
Ed, in your conquest of doing the work that God is wanting of you to interest others, of all creeds,to learn of the compassion of Jesus, have you been able to interest and include your wife and children in the efforts that you make?  Have they decided to help you in your work for the Lord? How nice it is, as a family, to work to save souls for the kingdom of God. I have found that to have Agape love for those closest to me gives me a closer walk with Jesus. 
Nice to hear from you El... 

Yes, Jesus ...

and that my friend says it all.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on October 10, 2009, 02:26:07 PM
Perhaps they do not see me exemplify it enough as yet, I need to renew it in myself again as it once was in Theodor Alabama.    Satan would not want them to be filled with agape, agapous, philio and the joy it brings, and he works hard to fight any such unity.

Quote
Christian workers who succeed in their efforts must know Christ; and in order to know Him, they must know His love. In heaven their fitness as workers is measured by their ability to love as Christ loved  and to work as  He worked.  {AA 550.3}
     "Let us not love in word," the apostle writes, "but in deed and in truth." The completeness of Christian character is attained when the impulse to help and bless others springs constantly from within. It is the atmosphere of this love surrounding the soul of the believer that makes him a savor of life unto life and enables God to bless his work.  {AA 551.1}
     Supreme love for God and unselfish love for one another --this is the best gift that our heavenly Father can bestow. This love is not an impulse, but a divine principle, a permanent power. The unconsecrated heart cannot originate or produce it. Only in the heart where Jesus reigns is it found.   "We love Him, because He first loved us." In the heart renewed by divine grace, love is the ruling principle of action. It modifies the character, governs the impulses, controls the passions, and ennobles the affections. This love, cherished in the soul, sweetens the life and sheds a refining influence on all around.  {AA 551.2}
         John strove to lead the believers to understand the exalted privileges that would come to them through the exercise of the spirit of love. This redeeming power, filling the heart, would control every other motive and raise its possessors above the corrupting influences of the world. And as this love was allowed full sway and became the motive power in the life, their trust and confidence in God and His dealing with them would be complete. They could then come to Him in full confidence of faith, knowing that they would receive from Him everything needful for their present and eternal good. "Herein is our love made perfect," he wrote, "that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear." "And this is the confidence that we have in Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He heareth us: and if we know that He hear us, . . . we know that we have the petitions that we desired of Him."  {AA 551.3}

Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on October 10, 2009, 02:28:11 PM
conclusion of post just above this one

Quote
Love is the basis of godliness. Whatever the profession, no man has pure love to God unless he has unselfish love for his brother. But we can never come into possession of this spirit by trying to love others. What is needed is the love of Christ in the heart. When self is merged in Christ, love springs forth spontaneously. The completeness of Christian character is attained when the impulse to help and bless others springs constantly from within--when the sunshine of heaven fills the heart and is revealed in the countenance.  {COL 384.2}
     It is not possible for the heart in which Christ abides to be destitute of love. If we love God because He first loved us, we shall love all for whom Christ died. We cannot come in touch with divinity without coming in touch with humanity; for in Him who sits upon the throne of the universe, divinity and humanity are combined. Connected with Christ, we are connected with our fellow men by the golden links of the chain of love. Then the pity and compassion of Christ will be manifest in our life. We shall not wait to have the needy and unfortunate brought to us. We shall not need to be entreated to feel for the woes of others. It will be as natural for us to minister to the needy and suffering as it was for Christ to go about doing good.   {COL 384.3}




"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance." Gal. 5:22, 23. This fruit can never perish, but will produce after its kind a harvest unto eternal life.  {COL 68.1}
     "When the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come." Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.  {COL 69.1}

2nd Corinthians 13:11  Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

1John 2:5  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1John 4:12  No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1John 4:
15  Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16  And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18  There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.


The ability to love AS Christ loved is a gift obtained on loan from Heaven.

........notice the phrase  "But we can never come into possession of this spirit by trying to love others. What is needed is the love of Christ in the heart. When self is merged in Christ, love springs forth spontaneously."
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: El on October 10, 2009, 04:53:46 PM


My mistake was that I did not get my wife and kids to start this process with me.     They not being mutually ignited were at home while I was helping and blessing others, they felt left out and a lot of my time was not focused on them,

(quote)   Ed, My question to you is that I am wondering if your wife and kids have started this process with you.  Are they now helping you to aid and bless others?  Are they still feeling that a lot of your time is not focused on them? 
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on October 12, 2009, 05:19:37 PM
the experience of obtaining a loan of - (agape, agapous, philio,) happened in 1992, in Theodore Alabama.   My family never sought to share the experience, and very few SDA's percentagewise then or eversince seem interested.

My web access is very limited till I can get wireless working for the lonovo laptop.

Ok it's 30 min's later - and hooking the cable to my sons router back in the saddle.  :-D

too many SDA's and too many other Christiands I have tried to interest act like since they have the 27-28, or their own creeds,  that they need and desire nothing else.

But if a child has a Daddy - why wouldn't they want to love Him up close and have Him hold them close ?

Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: El on October 12, 2009, 08:18:26 PM
the experience of obtaining a loan of - (agape, agapous, philio,) happened in 1992, in Theodore Alabama.   My family never sought to share the experience, and very few SDA's percentagewise then or eversince seem interested.

My web access is very limited till I can get wireless working for the lonovo laptop.

Ok it's 30 min's later - and hooking the cable to my sons router back in the saddle.  :-D

too many SDA's and too many other Christiands I have tried to interest act like since they have the 27-28, or their own creeds,  that they need and desire nothing else.

But if a child has a Daddy - why wouldn't they want to love Him up close and have Him hold them close ?

God bless you, Ed, as you strive to work for the Lord and Bring others to Him.  May we always try to work for the Jesus who died for all of us.  Keep working for the Lord and He will stay close to you. 
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on December 07, 2009, 05:47:04 PM
Happy news - since the lst post - at a sermon given recently at the Hendersonville TN Seventh Day Adventist Church - speaker Frank Webb, Biblically identified and linked receiving the Agape / Agapous / Philio that comes from Father God and Christ through the indwelling and work of the Holy Ghost - to Biblically restoring the image of God in an individual, and preparing to not only be in harmony with Heaven but spiritually and culturarly fit in there.

He covered things I had not considered, and validated the things I was setting forth about the necessity of obtaing this love from God as the foundation of having His divine image recreated within.    He showed from Scripture & SOP that the image of God in humans is spiritual, not just physically having bodies patterned after the physical forms of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost.  

I wish I had a transcript, or CD, or DVD of the sermon - plus his notes.  He is not a minister, but an SDA believer.   Using Scripture & SOP resources, believers can discover more of the things of God, in direct proportion as their faith and devoted heartfelt searching attracts the Holy Spirit's attention and is hand in hand with His sympathies.

Agape and it's derivations does not replace the need for and specific focus given by the Bible's doctrines.   Without obedience all forms of indwelling love erode, and leave the person as the presence of the Holy Ghost and His work is quenched.   Without truthful doctrines their is no common ground of obedience and harmony with the source of truth.

Truth is more than an attitude or honesty, it is also fathful absolutes of reality, for the Creator of Truth is also the Creator of Reality.  Truth is a function of Who the Creator is, and the functions of the absolutes of reality; but too often we are not looking or do not comprehend either with the heart or mind or conscience.   Too often the reasons are disobedience due to rejection of some facet(s) of God's truths and love, in favor of some other cherished idol(s) following misplacing affections upon them .
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on January 16, 2010, 05:26:51 PM
 
Quote
Among the Jews was a remembrance made of sins every year, and they felt that sin needed a fresh sacrifice. Sins forgiven in Christ are remembered no more. Saith God, "I will remember their sin no more" (Jer. 31:33). The Lord accepts the sinner that comes to Him in contrition, repenting of His sins; and treats Him just as if he were innocent. Again, He says our sins are covered. Will the youth think seriously and begin to inquire, What shall I do to be saved? "Behold! The Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). The more your mind is educated and trained to think of Jesus, to talk of Jesus, the less power will Satan have over your mind. He cannot bear to belong in the company of those who will meditate upon the love of God, and Jesus Christ.--Letter 43, 1892, pp. 5,6. (To Elder S. N. Haskell, Sept. 18, 1892.) {11MR 364.1}

The obvious question is then - how do I educate and train my mind to - think & talk about Jesus, and Heaven's Principles & teachings, and the love of God ?

1. First ask Jesus to set up a personalized education, tutoring, training program for you personally. 

2. Second Ask Jesus to grasp and hold your interest in learning how to do your part in educating and training your mind to - think & talk about Jesus, and Heaven's Principles & teachings, and the love of God  - so that you won'y give it up before He has time to produce results in you.

3. Third - this kind of stuff is in the Bible & SOP, lead me to what is written there to teach me to educate and train my mind and cause it to "jump out at me" so plainly that I will not miss it.

4. ask Jesus to give you the "vital transfusion" of Himself that will enable and move you to act on what you learn, and awaken trust that He will not only empower and motivate you, but finish what He starts.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on September 03, 2016, 06:27:41 PM
My wife is spiritually starting to blossom in Christ - due to using the training from Emmanuel Institute Soul Winning to work for souls, and organizing training our local church, and starting local Bible studies.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on September 03, 2016, 06:32:11 PM
My wife and son are spiritually starting to blossom in Christ - due to using the training from Emmanuel Institute Soul Winning to work for souls, and organizing training our local church, and starting local Bible studies. Our son is very active working for souls elsewhere.  Pray for our family I did not name them all. 

Pray for the missing member as though they were your own child - remember Josephine Edwards telling of the story of the reconversion of her brother Bill shortly before his death. 

1. 1st That local church was winnowed and fanned by the Holy Spirit mandated command with the Holy Spirit's words - from the pulpit and carried home by the Holy Spirit - drop the grudges, forgive, make it right, or leave and don't come back till you do.  God works with the few made right with Him and not the many stubbornly standing in the wrong against Him and His teachings.

2. 2nd To the remaining cleansed Church members and people - they take Bill's backsliding and apostasy from Christ & His Church to heart, as their own child, and plead to Christ for his reconversion and return - with the earnestness as if Bill was their own family member, weeping with those who weep, his absence and empty chair at their table and from their heart.   Now they prayed in unity and harmony of broken hearts for Bill's reconversion to Christ including heart felt obedience of all His teachings and restoration to Church membership.

3. 3rd Jesus personally intervened and came down from Heaven and brought Bill back to Himself and returning to being a faithful SDA, just in time before Bill's life ended, giving Bill some months to live as an SDA again.

Quote
  As a people, we have received great light. This light the Lord has entrusted to us for the benefit and blessing of the world. To us has been given the ministry of reconciliation. With power from on high we are to beseech men to be reconciled to God. We are encouraged to pray for success, and we are given the divine assurance that our prayers will be heard and "if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of My Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them." "Ask of Me, and I will answer your requests."  {Central Advance, February 25, 1903 par. 1} 
     The promise is made on condition that the united prayers of God's people are offered, and in answer to these prayers there may be expected a power greater than that which comes in answer to private prayer. The power given will be proportionate to the unity of the members and their love for God and for one another.  {Central Advance, February 25, 1903 par. 2}   

Quote
Our Saviour follows His lesson of instructions with a promise that if two or three should be united in asking anything of God, it shall be given. Christ here shows that there must be union with others, even in our desires for a given object. Greater importance is attached to the united prayers, the union of effort, the union of purpose. God hears the prayers of individuals, but on this occasion, Jesus was giving special and important lessons that were to have a special bearing upon His newly organized church upon earth. There must be an agreement in the things which they desired and for which they prayed. It was not merely the thoughts and exercises of one mind, which might be liable to deception, but the petition was to be the earnest desire of more minds than one that centered [on] the same point. {Lt54-1874}
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on September 04, 2016, 01:20:40 PM
topic has been posted to.
Title: Re: Is It Just a Theory?
Post by: Ed Sutton on December 22, 2019, 01:13:48 AM
Pastor Kameron Devasher 12 part YouTube video series -

God's love through each phase of the Great Controversy - is identified in detail from Scripture.  Worth taking notes on would you agree ?

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQzPJjyjOkY&list=PLRogO1SxoZN2Q_aV5qgJFWgHGPLuM2dBj&index=1  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQzPJjyjOkY&list=PLRogO1SxoZN2Q_aV5qgJFWgHGPLuM2dBj&index=1)