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Title: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: A cruce salus on July 12, 2008, 04:28:11 PM
I just recently listened to one of David Gates sermons and towards the end he made it sound as if Jesus was coming in a few months and that the United States was going to collapse toward the same time. Another thing he said was that to me i should sell me house my car and basically everything i own. I am a little confused here is he making perdictions as to when Jesus is coming and that owning good stuff is a bad thing or what?
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: newbie on July 12, 2008, 04:50:55 PM
I just recently listened to one of David Gates sermons and towards the end he made it sound as if Jesus was coming in a few months and that the United States was going to collapse toward the same time. Another thing he said was that to me i should sell me house my car and basically everything i own. I am a little confused here is he making perdictions as to when Jesus is coming and that owning good stuff is a bad thing or what?
Hi Cruce,

Yes, this is a tactic of David Gates to motivate the sleeping church.  If you listen carefully, David will qualify that he is not time-setting but just getting people to get off their seats and do something.  He was saying the same if you listen to sermons done back in the earlier 2000s.  And you know, if he keeps saying it, someday he will be right.   :lol:

newbie
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Raven on July 12, 2008, 05:42:37 PM
The message of David Gates as described by ACS does not seem to square with Jesus admonition to "occupy 'til I come," nor does it seem to square with SOP counsel.  She plainly says that the Lord will show us when we need to rid ourselves of any assets before it's too late.  Seems like another one of the devil's methods to get us all worked up so we will make foolish decisions.  Sensationalism is not the way to wake up Laodicea.  Reality will do that soon enough, and hopefull not too late for too many.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: newbie on July 12, 2008, 05:52:22 PM
The message of David Gates as described by ACS does not seem to square with Jesus admonition to "occupy 'til I come," nor does it seem to square with SOP counsel.  She plainly says that the Lord will show us when we need to rid ourselves of any assets before it's too late.  Seems like another one of the devil's methods to get us all worked up so we will make foolish decisions.  Sensationalism is not the way to wake up Laodicea.  Reality will do that soon enough, and hopeful not too late for too many.

Point taken Raven.  But, David has gotten people to do missionary work and to step out in faith by his messages.  He speaks a great deal to the young people and is getting commitments from them to volunteer for missionary work in S.A.  He is also getting $ commitments from the older folk who are not healthy enough to enter into the field at this time.  We need to be doing the Lord's work. 

David's tapes are motivating and there is an excitement to get up and get busy doing the work in the mission field.  He has been coined as the "Doug B. of South America"   I can't think of any other that has done such a wonderful work in South America. 

I would be the first to agree that all this conspiracy jesuit stuff, gov. secret stuff, and economic disaster stuff can take over and divert the mind from the real goals.  It is a snare of Satan for sure.  We must have temperance in all things including the scare tactics.  Having said that, we must not have our heads in the sand but rather in our bibles. 



What do you think 'occupy 'til I come' means?
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: V. Hahn on July 12, 2008, 06:40:21 PM
Dear A cruce,

I listened to a David Gates sermon today (found here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6303273915717327918 "The Coming Crisis", preached in April 2008).

I don't know if that's the same one that you heard, but I heard him say similar things; however, but I understood him differently.   Please don't take this as a criticism or correction, but if I may, this is what I heard instead...

You said "...he made it sound as if Jesus was coming in a few months and that the United States was going to collapse toward the same time."

I heard him say (my paraphrase) that financial analysts predict economic collapse for the US in September of 2008, due to out of control spending, the government printing all the money they need (which makes it worthless), etc.  He was quoting experts who have said this.  He went on to say that God can perform miracles and this may not happen, but that we should be aware of the pending danger.  He also said that he doesn't know when Jesus will return and did not give any specific prediction...(though, of course, he said Jesus is no longer coming soon -- He is coming.  We all know that!)

You said "... was that to me I should sell me house my car and basically everything i own."

I took Mr. Gates to say that when we completely give our heart and soul to the Lord, we don't own our house, our car, etc.--it all belongs to Him.  I didn't hear him say we should sell anything...just put everything we own at God's disposal.

He also said that the SDA's purpose for being is to save souls and prepare them for Jesus' coming.  That we shouldn't worry about a career or saving for retirement, but we should all be missionaries and put all on the line for God.  Only people will be taken to heaven, not things.

That's just my interpretation...poor as it may be.  I highly recommend the above sermon.  It inspired me alot, and I thank God for people like David Gates who don't hold back but tells us things we need to hear in this late stage of earth's history. 

Vicki
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: SDA4Life on July 12, 2008, 07:10:02 PM
I appreciate much of what David Gates does. However I have seen a challenge with some of his messages. I had a friend from academy that got very excited about the messages that Gates was preaching around 2002. The message was not very different from what he is preaching today. What I saw happen with my friend is that it caused him to develop a fire escape religion - "I better get right because the judge is coming." Rarely have I seen this type "conversion" lead to a sanctifying relationship with Christ. Today my friend is back, perhaps deeper than before, in a Laodicean state. There is a difference, albeit a fine line, between proclaiming the 3 Angel's Messages and creating a sensationalized stir. From the messages I have heard from D. Gates he occasionally crosses the line.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: traveler on July 12, 2008, 07:58:20 PM
Well said, Vicki.

David Gates is all about total commitment to Jesus Christ.  Is it time to liquidate our assets for the gospel?  As we fully submit and commit ourselves to Jesus, He, Himself will answer that question for us is we are honest.  James 1:5 (http://studybible.vegemedia.net/bible/index.php?verse=James1#Jam1:5)  SOP tells us that many will offer their means after it is too late to be useful.

Quote
MR No. 1190 (http://egwdatabase.whiteestate.org/nxt/gateway.dll/egw-comp/section12951.htm/book14017.htm/chapter14024.htm)     Last Sabbath evening the Lord gave me a view of many things, which I will now try to relate. I saw the people of God--some were dormant and stupid; they were but half awake, and did not realize the time we were living in. I saw that the man with the "dirt brush" had entered, and some were in danger of being swept away. I begged of Jesus to save them--to spare them a little longer and to lift them up so that they could get a sight of their situation before it should be forever too late. The angel said destruction is coming like a mighty whirlwind. I begged of the angel to pity, to save, those who were attached to their possessions and were not willing to cut loose from them and distribute them to speed the messengers on their way to feed the hungry sheep, who were dying for the want of spiritual food.

     I could hardly bear the sight of the sheep dying for the want of saving, present truth, while some who professed to believe the present truth were holding on to their property and were letting them die, by withholding the necessary means to carry forward the work of God. As it was held up before me, the sight was too painful, and I begged of the angel to take it away, and remove the painful sight from me. I saw that when the cause of God called for their property, they were sorrowful, as the young man was who had great possessions, and who inquired what he should do to inherit eternal life. I saw that very soon the overflowing scourge would pass over, and sweep their possessions all away; and then it will be too late to sacrifice earthly goods, and lay up treasure in heaven. {16MR 30.2}

David Gates frequently reminds his listeners that once they give themselves 100% to God, everything they own belongs to God to be used and diposed at His pleasure.  Fanaticism and presumption often stand close to faith and obedience.  We each must ask ourselves if we are being motived by "wise stewardship," or "selfishness," if it is the voice of Satan encouraging us to destroy ourselves or the voice of Jesus asking us to sacrifice for lost souls.  Only you, gentle reader, can answer that question for yourself, and you dare not do it in self strength, but by faith, in humility, trusting that God can and will teach you how to follow him if you are willing. Proverbs 3:5-10 (http://studybible.vegemedia.net/bible/index.php?verse=Proverbs3#Pro3:5)

Traveler (singing softly to himself as he types..."Are you ready for Jesus to come...")
more sermons by David Gates (http://medialibrary.vegemedia.net/index.php/extreme-missions-david-gates/)
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: wondering on July 12, 2008, 08:05:13 PM
I appreciate much of what David Gates does. However I have seen a challenge with some of his messages. I had a friend from academy that got very excited about the messages that Gates was preaching around 2002. The message was not very different from what he is preaching today. What I saw happen with my friend is that it caused him to develop a fire escape religion - "I better get right because the judge is coming." Rarely have I seen this type "conversion" lead to a sanctifying relationship with Christ. Today my friend is back, perhaps deeper than before, in a Laodicean state. There is a difference, albeit a fine line, between proclaiming the 3 Angel's Messages and creating a sensationalized stir. From the messages I have heard from D. Gates he occasionally crosses the line.

There is an excellent sermon that goes along these lines at:

http://www.audioverse.org/displayrecording/958/AlistairHuong-FacingSensationalism (http://www.audioverse.org/displayrecording/958/AlistairHuong-FacingSensationalism)
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: colporteur on July 12, 2008, 08:28:46 PM
It may already be too late or nearly so, for some of our people to rid themselves of the things God would have us sell. Here in MI. the housing market is flooded with houses that are not selling. Forclosures are through the roof and empty houses everywhere...at least in my whole section of the state. I believe David is trying to bring our people up to date on putting God first and everything else last. We have been slow to hear and slow to move. Some of us are still waiting for the call to move out of the cities when the call came 100 years ago. Some of us are still waiting to hear that its time to leave off animal products from our diet when the call to leave off cheese came a century ago and not unbias science and our more faithful physicians in the church are telling us today of the many serious life-threatening hazards in these products. I don't think God is going to drop little white paper notes from heaven saying its time. It would be easy if He worked that way.

Several years ago Ed Reid wrote a book "Even at the Door" which shared that Christ was even at the door. Today Elder Reid says that America is strong economically. There seems to be a bit of a holding pattern if not a hint of complacency in his current view that concerns me.

 
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: A cruce salus on July 13, 2008, 11:10:49 AM
I thank you all for your response to my question, and appreciate it when i get solid feedback such as this. The sermon that i had listened to was called (The Approaching Storm). At just about the end of the sermon he got into a few things that seemed to me as SDA4 Life put it were just a tad over the top to me, after i had listened to his sermon and got to the end i felt well.... must be going to Hell because i am not a complete Vegan! Yesss you heard it here first i have not reached that part in my Christian life yet but i almost there lol.
    I agree with his message that all that we have and all that we are are the Lords and that we should be as Mrs. White put it spending money to save souls, and Mr. gates had that all right and i got a blessing out of it, but i would have to say that using scare tactics does not work rather it pushes people into a scared mode.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: colporteur on July 13, 2008, 07:40:36 PM
I thank you all for your response to my question, and appreciate it when i get solid feedback such as this. The sermon that i had listened to was called (The Approaching Storm). At just about the end of the sermon he got into a few things that seemed to me as SDA4 Life put it were just a tad over the top to me, after i had listened to his sermon and got to the end i felt well.... must be going to Hell because i am not a complete Vegan! Yesss you heard it here first i have not reached that part in my Christian life yet but i almost there lol.
    I agree with his message that all that we have and all that we are are the Lords and that we should be as Mrs. White put it spending money to save souls, and Mr. gates had that all right and i got a blessing out of it, but i would have to say that using scare tactics does not work rather it pushes people into a scared mode.

ACS;

I don't think most of our more alert preachers are using scare tactics anymore than was Noah. The truth is that a few of our people are simply trying to wake up a sluggish church so we are prepared for a time like none other in history.

The following example portrays, at least in part,what I mean.

Some folks say, "I don't want my children to be afraid of people." This is their response when someone says that they are teaching their children to be wary of strangers. I always answer, " I would rather have my children safe, even it they may be a little afraid of strangers than to have  them totally at ease until  perhaps they are kidknapped, sexually abused, tortured, and then either killed or sold as sex slaves and taken to another country for the rest of their lives."
I realize that not every careless child is taken as a victim but what if it is yours ?  While a parent not preparing their child against a possible kidnapp may not necessarily result in tragedy, a lack of preparation for end times and the coming of Jesus will absolutely be tragic.

Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: SDA4Life on July 13, 2008, 10:59:02 PM
Preaching about reformation and consecration is always appropriate. Today is the day that we need to be ready for eternity. Preparation (taking sanctification seriously, getting out of cities, return to edenic diet, simplifying our possessions,  etc.) is not something that can wait. This is a main component of sermons that I have heard from David Gates. This I am in full agreement with.

The challenge I have is some of the reasons give as to why. When people begin to specify a time-frame, even with disclaimers, I believe that they are doing a disservice to the recipient of the message. Even when the disclaimer of "I am not date-setting" is given, the concept of mentioning dates in regards to the final events is unwise. It is one thing to say that "Jesus is coming soon!" It is a different thing to say "the final events could very well start later this year." This is where I have seen people resort to a fire escape religion which will often result in spiritual apathy if Jesus does not come within the year.

The bottom line is that if people, who have the knowledge today, are waiting for someone to come along and tell them to put that knowledge into practice, it will probably be too late for them when the end-times come. We do not be needing to look at current events as an indicator of when to "get serious."


On a side-note:

The Three-Angels Messages is an urgent message of repentance and warning that applies directly to our time (the hour of judgment is come!) But, when fully studied, it is not a "turn or burn" message that some make it. It is, critics to the contrary, a wonderful message that demonstrates God's mercy to this sinful world. Why give a final call to repentance when so many had already been given? When people understand the mercy of God they will want to follow Him, not for fear of otherwise being destroyed, but because they will recognize how awesome God truly is. I believe that this is an important distinction between the true gospel and its many counterfeits.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Raven on July 14, 2008, 04:28:55 AM
Preaching about reformation and consecration is always appropriate. Today is the day that we need to be ready for eternity. Preparation (taking sanctification seriously, getting out of cities, return to edenic diet, simplifying our possessions,  etc.) is not something that can wait. This is a main component of sermons that I have heard from David Gates. This I am in full agreement with.

The challenge I have is some of the reasons give as to why. When people begin to specify a time-frame, even with disclaimers, I believe that they are doing a disservice to the recipient of the message. Even when the disclaimer of "I am not date-setting" is given, the concept of mentioning dates in regards to the final events is unwise. It is one thing to say that "Jesus is coming soon!" It is a different thing to say "the final events could very well start later this year." This is where I have seen people resort to a fire escape religion which will often result in spiritual apathy if Jesus does not come within the year.

The bottom line is that if people, who have the knowledge today, are waiting for someone to come along and tell them to put that knowledge into practice, it will probably be too late for them when the end-times come. We do not be needing to look at current events as an indicator of when to "get serious."


On a side-note:

The Three-Angels Messages is an urgent message of repentance and warning that applies directly to our time (the hour of judgment is come!) But, when fully studied, it is not a "turn or burn" message that some make it. It is, critics to the contrary, a wonderful message that demonstrates God's mercy to this sinful world. Why give a final call to repentance when so many had already been given? When people understand the mercy of God they will want to follow Him, not for fear of otherwise being destroyed, but because they will recognize how awesome God truly is. I believe that this is an important distinction between the true gospel and its many counterfeits.

Very well said, SDA.  I recognize that the urgency of the message sometimes causes some of its proponents to get a bit carried away.  Unfortunately that sometimes detracts from the truth of the message, as we have seen here.  Over the years I've heard in my own little local church some pretty wild statements, such as, "The Sunday law will come this year because the USA is talking to the PLO"--you can see how long ago that was).  20 years ago one dear saint told me that the they believed that the Sunday law would be enacted that year.  These types of pronouncements do nothing but diminish the credibility of our message in the minds of unbelievers.   I believe the time element should be left out of these messages, since it is purely speculative.  The emphasis should always be "Now is the time!"  We must be ready at all times for our Lord's appearing.  I've heard it said that we should plan for the future, but be ready to leave at a moments notice--that would mean not being so encumbered with the "goods" of this world that we don't want to leave them behind (it's all gonna burn anyway).  I believe that's a reasonable way of looking at it, anyway.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Deborah Risinger on July 14, 2008, 06:57:45 AM
A cruce salus...just keep wqlking with Jesus.  It is obvious to me. your desire is of your God. 

Jesus "is salvation."  "He" is salvation.

God certainly has ideals for His people,,,He moves us individually as our relationship with Him unfolds.

 Please, do not allow yourself to think you are lost because you are not yet "vegan." These kind of thoughts will discourage you and rob you of the relationship Christ wants you to have with Him right now,,,each moment of each day...in each experience He has for you.  Learning to find Him at each turn.. He will produce in you the "virtues of His presence" in your life. He will produce them in you "through your living in His presence."

You are doing fine,,,just keep going,,,don't look down,,,keep your eyes on Christ (IE scripture reading, beautiful music that reflects His charater, giving yourself to His work) and you will "become" all that He has in store for you.

God's Blessings'
Deborah  :-)
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: V. Hahn on July 14, 2008, 10:58:00 AM
Beautifully said, Deborah...amen.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: A cruce salus on July 14, 2008, 05:55:28 PM
I thank you for your encouragement Deborah it means a lot to me as a growing Christian!:)
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Kevin Barrett on July 15, 2008, 08:44:48 AM
I just recently listened to one of David Gates sermons and towards the end he made it sound as if Jesus was coming in a few months and that the United States was going to collapse toward the same time. Another thing he said was that to me i should sell me house my car and basically everything i own. I am a little confused here is he making perdictions as to when Jesus is coming and that owning good stuff is a bad thing or what?

In this time of impending difficulty, I take comfort in knowing that our Heavenly Father is in complete control. I certainly do appreciate the ministry of David Gates and what the Lord is doing
through him. With Bro. Gates, I do believe in an imminent soon return of Jesus and I also recognize that I personally own nothing, not even myself. Gate's reinforces these points in his
messages. I believe that he stands-out in this regard, because we're not hearing too much about Jesus' Second Coming (except in the context of an Evangelistic series) from our pulpits. A sense of mission, purpose and unique remnant identity are also rare to behold.

I do not recall Bro. Gates ever setting specific dates, but when he says that Jesus will come in months, this is true. How many months? nobody knows for certain. But, you could also say that Jesus is coming in seconds. The smaller unit of time emphasizes that the time is shorter than longer. The principle is that we should "Be Ready" and about our Father's business right now. It is High Time to awake out of sleep. Our resources, talents and time are all His and are to be utilized for His glory and the ministry that each of us has been privileged with. These types of messages emphasize to me that we're not of this world; Pilgrims, yes. Settlers, no.

Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Pamela Adams on July 15, 2008, 10:33:22 AM
Very good Kevin.........I personally feel God is waking more of us, as to the times and seasons.....it takes time and prayerful preparation to know whether we are being moved by emotion to save our own lives or are we truly hearing the voice of the Savior to move out and up to a higher calling.
As I presently see it....God seems to be moving on those who are willing to lay it all on the altar and directing them to places of safety, a kind of getting the ground troops in place if you will, that they may ready to take their Bibles and go forth as we are told in times of great difficulty.

 With each passing day, life all around is getting more and more difficult.  Soon many will no longer worry about how to pay their bills[as now] but it will be how do I feed my family and how do I maintain my employment with the high cost of fuel?  Because of the urgency of the messages from speakers like David Gates and others of God's calling, many are now inquiring,"How do I make my life count for you Jesus, for too long I have been asleep?" Many among those that I know, are discussing these very things, recognizing their lethargy and sensing their urgency.

 We must realize that if we have not been about our Father's business from where we are[present environment]then we should not expect that we will be anymore effective out in the country where the challenges are many. It is only by our total surrender, dying to self, and being obedient to the counsel He has given us and co-operating with the Holy Spirit we can know we are being lead of God.  As our Savior impresses us, urges us till there is no rest day or night, and as He leads out, and we know we are being called, and the doors are opened.... we can be confident that this is the way and we should walk in it.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: SDA4Life on August 01, 2008, 09:54:09 PM
Here are some interesting statement's regarding preaching about when the end will come. Taken from Last Day Events p. 33-35 (emphasis mine):

Quote
We are not to know the definite time either for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit or for the coming of Christ. . . . Why has not God given us this knowledge?--Because we would not make a right use of it if He did. A condition of things would result from this knowledge among our people that would greatly retard the work of God in preparing a people to stand in the great day that is to come. We are not to live upon time excitement. . . .

You will not be able to say that He will come in one, two, or five years, neither are you to put off His coming by stating that it may not be for ten or twenty years.

We are nearing the great day of God. The signs are fulfilling. And yet we have no message to tell us of the day and hour of Christ's appearing. The Lord has wisely concealed this from us that we may always be in a state of expectancy and preparation for the second appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven.

The exact time of the second coming of the Son of man is God's mystery.

Because the times repeatedly set have passed, the world is in a more decided state of unbelief than before in regard to the near advent of Christ. They look upon the failures of the time-setters with disgust, and because men have been so deceived, they turn from the truth substantiated by the Word of God that the end of all things is at hand.

I understand that Brother [E. P.] Daniels has, as it were, set time, stating that the Lord will come within five years. Now I hope the impression will not go abroad that we are time-setters. Let no such remarks be made. They do no good. Seek not to obtain a revival upon any such grounds, but let due caution be used in every word uttered, that fanatical ones will not seize anything they can get to create an excitement and the Spirit of the Lord be grieved.

We want not to move the people's passions to get up a stir, where feelings are moved and principle does not control. I feel that we need to be guarded on every side, because Satan is at work to do his uttermost to insinuate his arts and devices that shall be a power to do harm. Anything that will make a stir, create an excitement on a wrong basis, is to be dreaded, for the reaction will surely come.

There will always be false and fanatical movements made by persons in the church who claim to be led of God--those who will run before they are sent and will give day and date for the occurrence of unfulfilled prophecy. The enemy is pleased to have them do this, for their successive failures and leading into false lines cause confusion and unbelief.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: A cruce salus on August 02, 2008, 12:00:50 PM
That is a great quote SDA4Life and i thank you! :-D
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Kevin Barrett on August 04, 2008, 03:07:30 PM
Yes. That is a good quote. I had not seen that one before.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Scott Davis on December 29, 2008, 12:42:52 AM
Well most all of what David Gates was predicting back in April, did come true this fall 2008.
America is experiencing a horrible financial collapse.
Can all the kings horses and all the kings men, but humpty dumpty back together again?
The way our political leaders are attempting to solve this crisis is not going to work. They are trying to fix the problem by rewarding the incompetent and negligent workers with the resources of the competent and committed workers of higher integrity.
This goes right against the principals taught in the Bible by Christ.
In the parable of the 3 stewards who where given a talent each. (Matt. 25:14) The one that hid his talent and did not invest it Wisely was punished and had his taken away.  UUhmm,,,,HE WAS NOT BAILED OUT. Nope. Todays bankers have done Worse. But we today are going to try and do the opposite.....We are going to reward the Unfaithful with the resources (money)of the faithful. Hate to inform you all here in America. This will result in abject failure.
If our financial institutions want success,,,,,,follow the Bible model. Don't steal.

Well to make a long story short, practically everything David Gates was talking about a year ago has come to pass, and not because he is a prophet, no he was just being observant and using common sense and taking heed to the scriptures and the SOP. But he was wrong about that man , 'Ernie Knolls', with the dreams and all. I never got caught up in that, I guess David made a mistake there, but he was dead on right about the Financial collapse.

God have mercy on us for being so complacent.
Thank you
-Scott
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: kayyak on December 29, 2008, 07:17:04 AM
Where does it say that you go to hell if you aren't vegan?  No place.

I thank you all for your response to my question, and appreciate it when i get solid feedback such as this. The sermon that i had listened to was called (The Approaching Storm). At just about the end of the sermon he got into a few things that seemed to me as SDA4 Life put it were just a tad over the top to me, after i had listened to his sermon and got to the end i felt well.... must be going to Hell because i am not a complete Vegan! Yesss you heard it here first i have not reached that part in my Christian life yet but i almost there lol.
    I agree with his message that all that we have and all that we are are the Lords and that we should be as Mrs. White put it spending money to save souls, and Mr. gates had that all right and i got a blessing out of it, but i would have to say that using scare tactics does not work rather it pushes people into a scared mode.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Dalfie on December 29, 2008, 08:46:34 AM
Well to make a long story short, practically everything David Gates was talking about a year ago has come to pass, and not because he is a prophet, no he was just being observant and using common sense and taking heed to the scriptures and the SOP. But he was wrong about that man , 'Ernie Knolls', with the dreams and all. I never got caught up in that, I guess David made a mistake there, but he was dead on right about the Financial collapse.

David seems to be largely right about the financial collapse... he also said himself that he made a mistake about the dreams.


Where does it say that you go to hell if you aren't vegan?  No place.

It doesn't... especially since I am nearly 100% certain David himself isn't complete vegan. He did say that he is working on improvements in some areas of his life, and I think I can make an educated guess that diet is one of them.

Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: colporteur on December 29, 2008, 10:11:48 AM
Where does it say that you go to hell if you aren't vegan?  No place.


What will unfit us for heaven is when we continue to reject light shining upon our path.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: newbie on December 29, 2008, 10:43:11 AM
Quote
Where does it say that you go to hell if you aren't vegan?  No place.

There is no hell... 

We are to take care of the temple or the HS will not dwell within...
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: colporteur on December 29, 2008, 01:04:01 PM
What I have seen many people going through do to a great extent their lifestyle....is a version of hell.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: newbie on December 29, 2008, 01:05:17 PM
What I have seen many people going through do to a great extent their lifestyle....is a version of hell.

I've heard it said, "We are what we eat." 

Me thinks there are some that do not believe this???
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Larry Lyons on December 29, 2008, 01:57:02 PM
Well most all of what David Gates was predicting back in April, did come true this fall 2008.
America is experiencing a horrible financial collapse.
Can all the kings horses and all the kings men, but humpty dumpty back together again?
The way our political leaders are attempting to solve this crisis is not going to work. They are trying to fix the problem by rewarding the incompetent and negligent workers with the resources of the competent and committed workers of higher integrity.
This goes right against the principals taught in the Bible by Christ.
In the parable of the 3 stewards who where given a talent each. (Matt. 25:14) The one that hid his talent and did not invest it Wisely was punished and had his taken away.  UUhmm,,,,HE WAS NOT BAILED OUT. Nope. Todays bankers have done Worse. But we today are going to try and do the opposite.....We are going to reward the Unfaithful with the resources (money)of the faithful. Hate to inform you all here in America. This will result in abject failure.
If our financial institutions want success,,,,,,follow the Bible model. Don't steal.

Well to make a long story short, practically everything David Gates was talking about a year ago has come to pass, and not because he is a prophet, no he was just being observant and using common sense and taking heed to the scriptures and the SOP. But he was wrong about that man , 'Ernie Knolls', with the dreams and all. I never got caught up in that, I guess David made a mistake there, but he was dead on right about the Financial collapse.

God have mercy on us for being so complacent.
Thank you
-Scott
Welcome to the forum Scott!! You are right on with your assessment. And to make matters worse, by the looks of the men who have been selected for Obama's financial team, there will be little or no change of direction.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: colporteur on December 29, 2008, 03:42:15 PM
Welcome to the forum Scott!! You are right on with your assessment. And to make matters worse, by the looks of the men who have been selected for Obama's financial team, there will be little or no change of direction.

This harmonizes with thinking that I have had for some time and has led me to abstain from voting. It does not matter who is president. At the core they all sleep together.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: kayyak on December 29, 2008, 05:01:56 PM
I think veganism is good, but there is no scripture/SOP to say that if we are not, that we are lost.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: colporteur on December 29, 2008, 05:28:47 PM
I think veganism is good, but there is no scripture/SOP to say that if we are not, that we are lost.

 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." James 4:17

  " Then Jesus said unto them, yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whether he goeth. "John  12:35

If one has not the light or has not ample plant based food to supply daily needs that is another issue. In most situations and in America this is not the situation.




Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Larry Lyons on December 30, 2008, 03:43:11 PM
I think veganism is good, but there is no scripture/SOP to say that if we are not, that we are lost.
Kayyak, I agree with you. It was never presented as a rule, or a salvation issue. However, Ellen White wrote that before the end, food products from animal sources will have become so unhealthy and dangerous that God's people will give them up. It was a prediction. The first part has already been fulfilled. Animal products can no longer be guaranteed safe. The information has been around for quite sometime. Apparantly, God's people as a whole are lagging behind many in the world in giving them up. There are strong warnings in the SOP that many people, and she was speaking to Adventists, will be lost because they are driven by their appetite and fail to bring it under control.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: newbie on December 30, 2008, 04:11:43 PM
Kayyak, I agree with you. It was never presented as a rule, or a salvation issue. However, Ellen White wrote that before the end, food products from animal sources will have become so unhealthy and dangerous that God's people will give them up. It was a prediction. The first part has already been fulfilled. Animal products can no longer be guaranteed safe. The information has been around for quite sometime. Apparantly, God's people as a whole are lagging behind many in the world in giving them up. There are strong warnings in the SOP that many people, and she was speaking to Adventists, will be lost because they are driven by their appetite and fail to bring it under control.

And over eating is just as bad...  we are to be temperate in all things.. 
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: kayyak on December 31, 2008, 04:47:06 AM
When I have the opportunity to give bible studies, I do so.  I introduce them to the health message too.  But I will NEVER tell them that they will be lost if they aren't vegan. 
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Dora on December 31, 2008, 10:42:33 AM
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Larry Lyons on December 30, 2008, 04:43:11 PM
Kayyak, I agree with you. It was never presented as a rule, or a salvation issue. However, Ellen White wrote that before the end, food products from animal sources will have become so unhealthy and dangerous that God's people will give them up. It was a prediction. The first part has already been fulfilled. Animal products can no longer be guaranteed safe. The information has been around for quite sometime. Apparantly, God's people as a whole are lagging behind many in the world in giving them up. There are strong warnings in the SOP that many people, and she was speaking to Adventists, will be lost because they are driven by their appetite and fail to bring it under control.

 

It seems to me that the appetite problem is just like all other things God has asked us to do.  If we are "willing to be made willing," then He will work in us to will and to do His good pleasure.  "What we need to understand is the true force of the will." SC47
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: kayyak on December 31, 2008, 11:01:10 AM
I have no problem with being a vegan.   I tell people about flesh foods etc. but I don't hit them over the head with a box of bananas to get the messsage across.  Pressuring people will not bring them to heaven.  Tell it once in a biblical, kind way and God will do the rest. 
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Dalfie on December 31, 2008, 11:22:25 AM
Ok, so now I'm confused.

Do you or do you not think that David Gates hit people over the head? with veganism?
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: kayyak on December 31, 2008, 11:35:53 AM
Actually, I was addressing the quote below (in red) and it took off from there. :-D

I thank you all for your response to my question, and appreciate it when i get solid feedback such as this. The sermon that i had listened to was called (The Approaching Storm). At just about the end of the sermon he got into a few things that seemed to me as SDA4 Life put it were just a tad over the top to me,  after i had listened to his sermon and got to the end i felt well.... must be going to Hell because i am not a complete Vegan
 ! Yesss you heard it here first i have not reached that part in my Christian life yet but i almost there lol.    I agree with his message that all that we have and all that we are are the Lords and that we should be as Mrs. White put it spending money to save souls, and Mr. gates had that all right and i got a blessing out of it, but i would have to say that using scare tactics does not work rather it pushes people into a scared mode.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: colporteur on December 31, 2008, 11:48:05 AM
When I have the opportunity to give bible studies, I do so.   But I will NEVER tell them that they will be lost if they aren't vegan. 

No one asked you too.  :wink:  All we need to do is share with people that they are saved or lost depending on how they react to the light God sheds on their path. Then be used of God to shed the light of present truth. If they are born again they will not consider pointed truth as being hit over the head. If they are not converted then anything that cuts across their life will be considered a burden. If people are not open then we are wasting our time when we labor long with them. If God is leading them they are apt to accept the health message better than most SDAs. i have seen this time and again.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Dalfie on December 31, 2008, 11:54:05 AM
Agreed, Cp.

Actually, I was addressing the quote below (in red) and it took off from there. :-D



Ok... so that means I'm the only person here who thought this was initially about the sermon....


(Dalfie goes off to sewing room where the dilemma of how to design the next project seems ... well... more her speed.  :whiskers:)


Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: kayyak on December 31, 2008, 12:03:42 PM
Things do get haywire when we are not face-to-face.   :uhoh:
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Eileen on January 08, 2009, 10:07:41 AM
Hi
I am new to David Gates (and to this forum) and I must admit that I too felt, on first viewing, that he was a bit over the top and seemed to be making wild statements.  I have watched a bit more and I'm convinced that he has a lot of truth and what he says is challenging, but maybe I need challenged!

Regarding being ready for Christ coming.  When we accept the gospel, that is, that our righteousness is in Christ and when we accept that by faith then we are ready for Christ's coming.  Do we grow beyond that, of course but that too is part of the sanctifying work of Christ in the life.  David is right when he says we should lay all on the altar Christ said it too.  I thank Vici for her timley remarks too.

Eileen  8-)
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Eileen on January 08, 2009, 10:11:29 AM
Hi All Again

On reading a bit more on the comments, how did we get off the important suff to the much less important stuff - the kitchen stuff.  Do we think that this is that important?  Allow God to lead in your life in matters of eating and drinking as well as in the big stuff but please, spend your energy on the big stuff.  Get into a good relationship with Christ, seek first the kingdom of God and everything else will fall into place in your life.

Eileen 8-)
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: colporteur on January 08, 2009, 04:11:55 PM
Hi All Again

On reading a bit more on the comments, how did we get off the important suff to the much less important stuff - the kitchen stuff.  Do we think that this is that important?  Allow God to lead in your life in matters of eating and drinking as well as in the big stuff but please, spend your energy on the big stuff.  Get into a good relationship with Christ, seek first the kingdom of God and everything else will fall into place in your life.

Eileen 8-)

Mrs. White said that many go to an early death as a result of what takes place in the kitchen. Wouldn't that make this important stuff?
It is difficult to "get into a good relationship with Christ" if we have diseased bodies and cloudy minds.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Ruth on January 08, 2009, 05:46:24 PM
I would say so, Cp.

I always imagined that the "godliness", referred to in 2 Peter 1, included the willingness to follow the inspired word.  Have we now decided that believing "His prophets" resides among the less important stuff? :?
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: V. Hahn on January 10, 2009, 02:18:45 PM
Welcome to the forum, Eileen!  We're glad to have you here!

Vicki
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Lea.TT on January 10, 2009, 02:40:30 PM
I'm sure the pharisees present when Jesus was here preaching on earth who thought that his messages were sensationalism.  When we read our Bibles especially the new Testament they speak of the coming of Jesus Christ as being 'at the doors'.  This is also what I got when I watched David Gates sermon on 'coming crisis'.  The new Testament calls for us to arise out of sleep, to understand that Christ coming draws near and that it is at the doors.  Just what Gates is trying to say.

When I watched David Gates sermond, i was 'awakened'.  I have been lukewarm for so long, trying to look for ways to establish my career, overly concerned with the type of car I wanted to own or felt like I deserved to own, retirement, etc.  I realised after watching his sermon that Christ could come as a thief in the night for those who are not prepared.  If Christ were to come then my heart would still be sent on getting the house and car of my dreams and not on spreading his gospel.

David Gates message speaks to similar lukewarm persons.  It calls for us to arise, get up and do something.  Look at all the wars going on around us.  How long do we think it's going to be before Christ comes?  Remember that in the last days there will be many skeptics as to the coming of Christ.  There would be those who would say that this message was preached centuries ago and Christ still hasn't come yet.  But, as Gates was saying, since this message was indeed preached centuries ago that Christ coming was drawing near then centuries later we in this present time would be much closer to his coming.  We should have on the breast plates of righteousness and God's son, our saviour Jesus Christ's second coming should not catch us sleeping.

We need to be ready to leave our possessions at a moment's notice.  Our possessions should not have a hold on us.  If we have to sell any of them to help our members who are in need or to further God's work in any way, we need to give our hearts to God so he can help us do so.  As someone said before "people will be going to heaven, not things."
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Dalfie on January 11, 2009, 09:21:24 AM
Lea.TT, I think this is the real point of the sermon. Sometimes its more convenient to find ways to be offended at a sermon like this so that we don't have to think about it or act on it. What we really need to do is awaken from our sleepy stupor.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Dora on January 12, 2009, 05:28:37 PM
I am with you, Dalfie.  I finally got to listen to that sermon.  If it wouldn't wake one up, I don't know what it would take, and no, it did not seem like sensationaliism to me.  From what the Bible and Ellen White describe, he did not tell the half of it.  I hope other churches are not like ours, but I am fearful that they are.  The only message we have heard in 6 years, (since our older pastor left) that mentioned the 3 angels' message was given by one of our lay preachers, who is a SS teacher.  He even came out of a Catholic church, too.  All our present pastor gives us is pablum, and yesterday, he brought us a message adapted from a sermon from Rick Warren.  He even gave out papers with it, and it had Warren's name at the top.  The sad thing is that very few cared, maybe some did not even know.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: newbie on January 12, 2009, 08:04:02 PM
I am with you, Dalfie.  I finally got to listen to that sermon.  If it wouldn't wake one up, I don't know what it would take, and no, it did not seem like sensationaliism to me.  From what the Bible and Ellen White describe, he did not tell the half of it.  I hope other churches are not like ours, but I am fearful that they are.  The only message we have heard in 6 years, (since our older pastor left) that mentioned the 3 angels' message was given by one of our lay preachers, who is a SS teacher.  He even came out of a Catholic church, too.  All our present pastor gives us is pablum, and yesterday, he brought us a message adapted from a sermon from Rick Warren.  He even gave out papers with it, and it had Warren's name at the top.  The sad thing is that very few cared, maybe some did not even know.
:-o
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Ed Sutton on January 13, 2009, 12:38:17 AM
Hi A Cruce Salus,

To turn back to Jesus and restart walking with Him,  is a position where it's easy to point fingers at, but more difficult a path to actually walk in.   Jesus did not dump Mary Magdalene, or Peter, or the thief on the cross.

I know what if feels like to be on the wrong side of the health message and have family members arraigning you before their tribunal of opinions, taking no notice of the inward struggles, small victories, ever threatening defeats.

Jesus personally knows what we both have to deal with.    He sends encouragement,  I was over at the Sabbath School Lesson thread and was posting what I learned about the conscience.   Jesus will hep us both put ourselves out of harm's-temptations way, and truly desire from our consciences and tastes what He wants us to eat and drink and all things temperance involves - He will help us both & explain stuff to us as we ask for it and can bear it.   Jesus is more conservative than anybody and He has mercy in His mouth that inspires .

 
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: ken on January 21, 2009, 03:37:04 PM
I have listened to David Gates over the last year
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: kayyak on January 21, 2009, 04:02:17 PM
Don't shoot me but:

Didn't Gates promote Ernie Knowles at one time?  It seems to me that he should have done more of an investigation about that before promoting him.  I'm a study, wait and see kind of person.  I don't jump into anything until I have all the facts. Makes me wonder.   After being brought up RC; I a very leery about what others say.
Title: Re: Listened to david gates a bit confused....
Post by: Dalfie on January 21, 2009, 05:45:42 PM
Here is what David Gates himself said regarding these topics on the "David Gates" discussion elsewhere on this forum.

Greetings to everone from Australia where I have been invited for a few weeks of speaking appointments and also the wedding of our third daughter (yesterday). My wife and I are taking a few days of rest before hitting the road again, and while surfing I ran across your forum on David Gates. I read all nine pages with interest and deeply appreciated the spiritual balance and Christian tone demonstrated there. Thank you.

I could say thanks and good bye, but I think I will take the chance to verify a few items, at least from my point of view, just for the record.

1. I've dedicated my life to mission service, and my ministry to rescuing souls. It seems that the main development of my ministry has been to wake up God's people to the reality of the shortness of time and encourage them to make the vital spiritual and physical preparations necessary to survive the events coming upon the world and carry out the mission set out before them.  It is painful to me to see that perhaps in my human frailty, I may not have gotten the same message across to everyone. I was totally surprised to see the tremendous response to those sermons on The Converging Crisis. I didn't expect it at all. It was just a sermon among hundreds of others. Though some have reacted in caution, the vast majority seem to have reacted with a revival and reformation, for which I am deeply grateful.

2. As I speak across the world, I can see that there is a great awakening happening everywhere.  This must surely make the enemy quite nervous. Thus we should not be surprised at seeing a polarization happening. It is painful but necessary. it is called a shaking and it immediately precedes the crisis that will reveal everyone's position. We should feel free to pray for each other, correct each other in the Lord, and keep each other balanced. This is what a body should be like.

3. It is absolutely necessary that God be placed at the center. When He is lifted up, he will draw all men unto Him.  For the past 12 years, this has been what I have tried to do.  Yet, when I clearly saw a storm coming, I acted like the captain of an airplane (which I am).  "We are about to enter severe turbulence ahead. Please fasten your seat belt."  It was not my intention to take the focus away from the Bible or the SOP. Rather simply to draw attention to the storm ahead as one of the signs of the times. I thought I was trying to say, get your spiritual and your physical life in order. Jesus is coming. However, in some ways it appears that I didn't get that message across like I wanted. God knows my heart however. But there is one thing that is certain. Those that don't wake up now, may never have another chance to do it. Once the crisis strikes as an "overwhelming surprise" it will be too late to prepare.

4. Regarding Ernie Knolls, my early support came after people wrote and called me asking for an opinion. I and five other pastors could not find any heresy on the website so I came out in public support. That was a mistake. I should have kept my advice to individual advice and I should have waited. Later I discovered that behind the website is quite another story.  Through this painful experience God taught me a lesson and kept me humble.   God has blessed our ministry worldwide because we move immediately when we see an opportunity. Yet moving fast has its dangers. But I am encouraged to read

"It is even more excusable to make a wrong decision sometimes than to be continually in a wavering position; to be hesitating, sometimes inclined in one direction, then in another. More perplexity and wretchedness result from thus hesitating and doubting than from sometimes moving too hastily." GW, p 135

I close wishing God's blessing on each of you and your homes.  See you on the front lines.

Your brother in Christ,

David Gates
<davico@gospelministry.org>

"God has given me a message for His people. They must awake, spread their tents, and enlarge their borders." ChS, p. 110